EBAY’S IDIOTIC AND DYSFUNCTIONAL RETURNS PROCESS PLUMBS NEW DEPTHS OF LUNACY

[kmd-tech]

This is now way beyond a joke!!!

The new Returns/Cancellations system processes have caused me nothing but headaches since being implemented last year. What used to be simple and straightforward procedures for communicating with buyers and then actioning agreed refunds, partial refunds and transaction cancellations; has now become an arbitrary and inflexible automated flow that seems to discourage meaningful communication between buyers and sellers to reach mutually agreeable resolutions to disputes.

Ebay’s new solution has proven to be poorly conceived, clumsy, flawed and completely biased towards buyers. The process flows lack transparency and are unclear to users with woefully inadequate explanatory material/guidelines. The system functionality remains incomplete and does not adequately cater for the full range of scenarios that arise between buyers and sellers (such as partial refunds where returned items turn out not to be faulty, or returns for replacement/exchange)

The above factors are bad enough, but could almost be adapted to and compensated for by sellers if not further compounded by eBay’s complete incompetence in the actual administration of Cases ultimately requiring arbitration/decision.

The nett result places the vast majority of reputable sellers in a completely vulnerable and powerless position where they are unable to meaningfully manage Returns in a manner that is consistent with both their obligations AND THEIR RIGHTS under Consumer Law.

I have now experienced first-hand the disastrous effects of all these factors combining together. I recently had a buyer initiate the Return process due to a claimed fault with a $600+ item he had purchased. Here is how the resulting fiasco has unfolded:

1. After initially asking the buyer a couple of basic trouble-shooting questions, I requested that he return the item to us and that we would be happy to replace it for him once we had verified the claimed fault (in my experience, a replacement item is what most buyers want in such cases, but I am also perfectly happy to refund upon request).
2. The buyer responded: “I seek a full refund on this item as it is faulty and not working, I do not intend to send it back to be assessed by you and be informed if I will receive a refund or not. That is not acceptable to me.”
   
   
3. The buyer then immediately opened a case stating “I have been asked to return the item to the seller to determine if it is faulty or not. I do not accept this outcome.” At this point I am locked out of the resolution process and am unable to record any comments or send any further communications to the buyer attached to the case.
   
   
4. Within a few hours I receive an (obviously automated) email from eBay stating that the case has been put on hold for a week to allow me to “work with the buyer” to facilitate return of the item. The message contains a warning that if I do not do so eBay may refund the buyer without requiring them to return the item to me.
   
   
5. I continue to be locked out of the resolution process and am unable to record any comments for eBay or details of communications sent to the buyer.
   
   
6. I obtain the buyers contact details through eBay and attempt to call him to facilitate the return and clarify any concerns he may have regarding the returns process. The buyer does not answer my calls or respond to my voicemail messages.
   
   
7. I message the buyer through eBay’s regular messaging system to attempt to facilitate the return and clarify any concerns he may have regarding the returns process. I explain that from his description of the issue I do not anticipate there being any issues with the return and assure him he will be offered a choice of full refund or replacement. The buyer does not respond.
   
   
8. I message eBay customer service to notify them of my attempts to communicate with the buyer and voice my concerns regarding the lack of any facility in the resolution system for me to document my actions and communications attempts in this regard. After about 3 back & forth ‘canned’ responses by service reps that completely failed to understand/acknowledge the concerns I raised, I finally got a response from a rep (probably more senior) who assured me as follows: “Once the hold expires and the buyer remains unresponsive, we will send them an email requiring them to return the item through PayPal's free return shipping. If they do not respond or do not return the item with tracking, we will then decide on the case accordingly. As long as you maintain the communication within eBay messages, we will have the records and will see all your efforts in resolving this with the buyer.”
   
   
9. I then message the buyer again asking them to please confirm tracking details if/when the item is returned, or alternatively to please contact me to discuss/resolve any outstanding concerns they may have. The buyer again does not respond.
   
   
10. Several days later I receive an (again obviously automated) email from eBay stating that they have decided the case in favour of the buyer, have refunded the buyer’s payment in full and have debited my seller account for this amount ($600+).
    
    
11. My only remaining option is to appeal the decision, which I have now done but this appears to involve me having only a single opportunity to enter e few reasons for my appeal before again being locked out of a totally non-transparent decision process (also automated?)

Obviously, I am completely outraged at this course of events which seems to me to be not only completely negligent and incompetent, but also little short of complicity in theft on the part of eBay. I consider the extent of the negligence eBay has demonstrated in handling this case to effectively be a breach of their user agreement and of any reasonable standards of fair trading that apply in this country, and am resolved not to accept liability for eBay’s decision to refund should the appeal not reach a sensible outcome.

All sellers out there should take heed that this could well happen to you also, and you are thus now bearing an entirely new level of risk when trading on eBay.

[motherbear2003]

As Lyndal said - phone, don't email.  It might be quicker to email but the results are generally unhelpful if they refer to your complaint at all.  Get on the phone and ask to speak to a Supervisor.

[lane-ends]

I refuse to sell anything now that will leave me seriously out of pocket if scammed like this.

Add to this the number of returns refunded has increased. Buyers used to ask the question and even after you agreed many then didn't bother proceeding, now when they simply ask the questions it just follows with a defect and refund. Once the ball starts rolling its hard to stop

[allfixelectrical]

Report Paypal to the FOS using the link here:-

https://forms.fos.org.au/onlinedispute

Report ebay to Acorn here:-

https://report.acorn.gov.au/

[black*poppy]

It is totally unacceptable that the buyer was refunded like that. Please follow through with ACORN etc and let us know how it goes.

I just want to clarify though OP, did you actually accept the return or did you just continue to message the buyer? I think once you accept the return the buyer has no choice to return for a refund?

[rkxfamily]

This seems like theft to me, pure and simple. How on earth can they justify deciding that the buyer can keep your $600 item?

Ebay have facilitated a $600 theft from you.

[ausbargainbasement]

Agree this new return system is carp just had the same thing happen, a customer initiated a return while we were OS due to limted internet access could not communicate with the buyer, returned to Oz to find had been escaleted and was under review by Ebay, even though it said to comminicate with your buyer to sort out a return proccess,but could not do that via the resolution centre as all commincation with the buyer was locked out **bleep** Ebay !!!! anyhow sent them a email via purchase history, but no answer, today got a email from Ebay stating 'eBay Customer Support has reviewed the case and made a final decision' 

Decision:
This case has been decided in the buyer's favour. and so granted full refund to the buyer, so now the buyer still has the product which has a minor problem and refunded $350.00 as well, this really sucks.

Dont have a problem refunding for faulty items, as long as we get the product back, as we send them to the manufacturers for repairs under warranty, but in this case out of pocket plus the buyer get to keep the item Fantastic system this is.

Just recently a buyer had a problem with a product, and thank god he did it the good old way, emailed us we agreed to a return, buyer posted item, we recieved it, we refunded buyer, no dramas, how easy was that, that was how we allways did it in the past, new return system is totally stuffed.

[davewil1964]

As previously advised - ACORN.

More useful than venting here.

[rkxfamily]

I am still thinking about this case hours after first reading about it and replying. It is so wrong.

I am really sorry for you kmd-tech and I am sorry for all of us too, that the eBay sytem has become so monumentally distorted.

I cannot fathom how they can justify this situation you have described. Apart from being completely unfair and against logic, surely it must be illegal? How can Ebay dictate that a customer keeps both your $600+ worth of goods AND have a full refund?? How can this be? How do they expalin it? How can they be so insanely biased?

It sits in violent contrast to the "help and protection" they DON'T offer sellers against buyers. I regularly read about ciustomers pulling a fast one and returning an empty box or used goods to which eBay respond the problem is "between the seller and the buyer" offering no help or protection.

It must be illegal. Ebay blocked your pathways to communicate and "ruled" on this. They decided the customer can have your item AND a full refund. It is insane.

 Someone suggested taking this to the ABC TV show "The Check out". I really think you should. It needs exposure and it badly needs to be ridiculed.

[ausbargainbasement]

Yes is a bit of venting, but also pointing out the flaws in the return system, even though Ebay do not read the community boards, or do they ?  just that now when a buyer escalates a return the seller is locked out of the communication cycle, even though it tells you to communicate with the buyer and Ebay makes a dision on the case behond the sellers control, fair enough refund the buyer, but should only happen if item is returned, you can not do that with a BM store, so why should it be different here.

[toysandthings12]

Yep, this system needs removing from Ebay.

I am on the bad end receiving this **bleep** for the 3rd time

since it started. Costing me heaps to.

Wonder if it applies to their big business friends anchor stores etc?

Even getting a demand now of refund first n then they'l send back the item??

Even tho item isnt faulty just not as good as they hoped for.

Some of our items require a little learning n getting used to.