Forcing me to managed payment or deny new listings

[retrowise]

I wanted to put up a new item but message came up I must register to managed payments. So I go to the link where it says "express interest". I fill out the form but skip the "Why are you interested in managed payments?" because I am not interested in it. Off course it won't let me continue. So I feel I'm being forced to voluntarily sign up for something I don't want. When I dig deeper, I find they also want driver's licence and who knows what other persona information which in no way I will submit to some private company online.

The question I have is it even legal to force people this way or simply deny their service?

I've been with ebay since the start but this will probably be the end of it. What are your thoughts

[danieh_6]

I just want to give a level headed 2c of this. I know you don't get along with him well but in 4channells defense there are some issues with PayPal, it's in their ToS where they can ban you for what ever reason they like, I'll outline 2 below.

Data collection:
When it comes to eBay and PayPal I am very skeptical what information is actually being kept on you. I spoke to OAIC, Say you get banned off eBay, but then close/delete your account and request everything to be deleted about you. Then everything should be deleted. However if you make a new account and wish to use it for buying and selling, You'd still be banned. Same with PayPal, But not 100% about PayPal, but I did speak to AFCA about it and they did say PayPal would hectically have to remove everything about you but when it comes to ATL/CTF regulations not certain but they'd have to pass off all information to Austrac. But if you got banned or frozen for other things that's not breaking the law rather their ToS. Technically speaking they do have to remove information about you. But if you were to create a new account you'd be banned.
Also eBay will disclose your information to a 3rd Party VeRo owner even if you didn't break a VeRo program holder what ever.

Regulation;
I want to touch on this point again for the forum regulars. People don't feel as safe giving more information to eBay as in the past they have had an unsavory experience(s) with customer service. I'm sure everyone has at some point. The fact that "eBay" as it appears is managing your payments is quite daunting to the averaged Joe when they have had no issues with PayPal in the past and for the small time Joe seller has never had to send in any ID to PayPal. Yes I agree Adyen is regulated and 4channel doesn't understand that, but the issue is as a whole that eBay hasn't listed a AFSL under the user agreement and have not made a reference to Adyen on their site, when you contact to customer service most people get the response "eBay are managing your payments now" Not the fact they are a regulated third party. So to the average Joe the same customer service is handling your money now.

4Channel also makes the point that he doesn't want to give his info to PayPal or Adyen, whatever, their choice. They are just abiding by the laws and regulations. Might be just a personal issue with foreign companies. Who knows.

PayPal issue Examples:
1) The PayPal I use on this eBay account to purchase stuff was locked for 8 months without reason in 2018. I did not do anything wrong and my eBay had already been restricted for over a year and half. (so it wasn't anything to do with selling) I don't really file disputes unless i really need to, or sell much stuff using it. I could use another account complete fine which was also under my name same addresses phone numbers and everything. To this day they would never justify why it happened.
2) One of our business PayPal's on the eBay account we sell on (before managed payments) we had 2 specific high value returns where we weren't being protected. (we get a few returns a month but these ones were random throughout last year) 1st one was a laptop screen for a high end laptop, quite expensive. The buyer bought the wrong one as they didn't read the listing as there are different. We accepted the return on ebay and payed for the return postage, but instead of just returning it for the right one, they buyer trying to make it work by ripping off the flex cable and trying to solder the old one on. Effectively destroying the screen. Of course we got no protection. had to refund the buyer. I'll try keep this short and sweet as this comments getting a bit long. The next one was a PayPal SNAD dispute that was 4 months after purchasing an item saying missing items or pieces via the bank. Which was weird cause it was sealed electronic from a store. Cut a long story short, a buyer sent us back an empty box for a $600 item. We also got charged a $15 fee. We took PayPal to AFCA on both occasions, for the bare minimum we were asking for fees to be refunded as we provided evidence in both cases we shouldn't be out of pocket. The second time that we did that, PayPal was more concerned that we filed 2 AFCA disputes and kept hammering on the fact that we contacted AFCA twice and shouldn't do that even after contact attempts failed with them. Case manager ended up ruling in our favor and forced them to give back everything both times.

Not having a go at anyone, Just trying to help people who are genuine looking for help here.

[digital*ghost]

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@4channel wrote:

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I don't think I'll bother with the rest of your jumble, and I'm certainly not taking your bait. *WINK* And now I remember why I didn't reply to a couple of your posts in the past. *SIGH*

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Hogwash.

As frustrating as your personal crusade against things like GSP and GST on SH goods has been, this is the absolute most the I have ever allowed my frustration with you to manifest in what could be interpreted by some as mild contempt.

Unlike that years-long effort, however, your posts here on this topic are not just rousing feelings of being hard done, they are legit intended to stir up fear, distrust, and have the very real potential to stop people from looking further into the facts, learning more about what they can do to trade on ebay safely as a seller, and stop using a service that can benefit them.

As far as I am concerned that is reprehensible. 

Don't like it, then by all means take the "Ti's better to remain silent..." route. 

[digital*ghost]

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@danieh_6 wrote:

I just want to give a level headed 2c of this. I know you don't get along with him well but in 4channells defense there are some issues with PayPal, it's in their ToS where they can ban you for what ever reason they like, I'll outline 2 below.

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Yes, that's why I said there has been some horror stories, some of which were devastating for the account holders  - some that even make news stories. My point was it needs to be balanced. And every business reserves the right to refuse service under certain conditions - PayPal's service refusals, holds and account freezes can have a lot of power over someone's financial situation, I'm not trying to deny that, my point was that most users will never experience a problem at all l, and of those that do, most will have it resolved quickly and with little fuss. 

Re: understanding why people don't trust ebay. That isn't actually my issue, I have said the same thing in previous posts, that I get why people are wary, but just because something is understandable, doesn't mean the decisions being made based on that fear and mistrust are informed or reasonable - that is my point. To not allow someone coming in with comments that basically amount to "PayPal and eBay are scary, good for you for not using them / sharing your info" to influence the decision, because it doesn't actually add any information to base that decision on, it only encourages the fear and mistrust that is already there. If 4channel doesn't want to hand over that info, no one will try to make or convince him to, but I will continue to protest him trying to influence others just because of his personal feelings on the matter. 

All businesses registered in Australia have to keep certain types of records for minimum periods of time to meet their obligations, so some laws can contradict (or even trump) others. 

[4channel]

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@4channel wrote:

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I don't think I'll bother with the rest of your jumble, and I'm certainly not taking your bait. *WINK* And now I remember why I didn't reply to a couple of your posts in the past. *SIGH*

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@digital*ghost wrote:

Hogwash.

As frustrating as your personal crusade against things like GSP and GST on SH goods has been, this is the absolute most the I have ever allowed my frustration with you to manifest in what could be interpreted by some as mild contempt.

Unlike that years-long effort, however, your posts here on this topic are not just rousing feelings of being hard done, they are legit intended to stir up fear, distrust, and have the very real potential to stop people from looking further into the facts, learning more about what they can do to trade on ebay safely as a seller, and stop using a service that can benefit them.

As far as I am concerned that is reprehensible. 

Don't like it, then by all means take the "Ti's better to remain silent..." route. 

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I'll probably regret taking the bait but never mind. I notice that you've become more fidgety in recent times and what was cleverly veiled has now become  more blatant. Your ad hominem  approach is not good.

Yeah, I've spoken out on a few things.  With the Paypal issue there is no fear mongering there. It's just fact and I've merely supported other people's right to speak out on this and other similar issues. Unfortunately his is a right that is not respected by some. So I became vocal.

[*tippy*toes*]

I thought this thread was about managed payments? 

Silly me.

[digital*ghost]

The current agreement to continue having PayPal as an option for buyers ends in 2023, but TBH I fully expect a new agreement will be reached and it will continue to be available beyond that, unless something happens in the next couple of years to dissuade a lot of people from using it to pay, anyway. 

[digital*ghost]

An ad hom is when someone insults another in place of an argument - I explained why I took issue with your behaviour and called that behaviour reprehensible; that is not an ad hom. 

"I notice that you've become more fidgety in recent times and what was cleverly veiled has now become more blatant" would qualify, because you've made no argument whatsoever, and vaguely implied mild insults instead. 

You have not posted any facts about PayPal. You have only posted anecdotes from people you know - what kinda circles you running in where a whole bunch of people you know get their accounts frozen left right and centre anyway? I can count on one hand the number of sellers I've been in contact with over the last 10 years - out of thousands of sellers - who've had serious problems with their PayPal account that didn't have a quick and easy solution.

That statement of my personal experience and knowledge of other's experience is 100% true, and has just as much "worth" as your "facts". 

[k1ooo-slr-sales]

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 @4channel wrote: Yes bluessonny, very true.  What I have no problem with giving a bank, I do have a problem with giving eBay or others. Too much personal info in the hands of a non-bank type of organization is a high risk.

And as for PayPal, I would never give my extra personal info to them. Not after the freezing of accounts and from what I have heard from people I know personally about probable so-called glitches in the system leading up to the cut-off date given to provide info.  What is said to be private today can be sold as info tomorrow.

Too right and well said! The regulation keeps banks as safe as safe can be in that area. For other entities and organization outside of that regulation the risk exposure is going to be much more. I certainly wouldn't dream of setting myself up for that.

Are you seriously suggesting that entities such as PayPal and/or eBay might, at some time in the future, sell the private information provided to them by members?  (Identifying and financial/account details)

[domino-710]

Even the tinfoil needs a change every so often. 

[katistrophik]

Personally, in digi's posts I think she sums it up all very well.

An intelligent person would realise that and back away, rather than continue to compound and prove to us all, even further, just how little they understand anything realating to eBay.

NWFTAPCRTBP