HELP! Buyer lying about empty box delivered, now friend has also made a purchase.

[savings.4.u]

Hi,

A buyer purchased an item from me on the 6/5/17 and when they received it messaged me saying that they received an empty box. They opened a return request for this. The customer told me that the package was sealed when they received it but the package was empty. I have provided Ebay with proof showing that the package was sealed when we sent it, and it would not make ANY sense that if someone stole the actual item out of the packaging that they would reseal the package.

Ebay has asked the buyer to fill in a Statuory declaration which they still have not done.

I also contacted Australia Post and they advised that the buyer needs to present to the local PO with the packaging, which the buyer is also refusing to do. Their reason being that they are too busy.

Now another buyer who is a repeat buyer (their first order was made on the 4/5/17)  and their second order on the 12/5/17 made when this return request was open  - has placed a message in the 'add message to seller' section of the invoice. This is what he has written : "Make sure everything is good its my second time order cos im satisfied with the first one". I found this message to be quite strange and I did a search on him, I found out that he is friends with the buyer who has opened the return request saying that he received an empty box.

I have emailed ebay about this but they have not sent me a response.

I highly suspect that if I send this second repeat buyer their item, they will try to cause problems by saying something is wrong with the item or it doesnt work or the box is empty etc etc.

I was thinking to video the item working as well as video the packaging of the item however, they could come back to me in a few weeks and make a claim and say the item is not working and Ebay would probably side with them.

If I refund them now that still leaves me open to receive a negative feedback from them.

I really do not know what to do in this situation, do any experienced sellers have any suggestions or has anyone experienced this situation?

Thanks

[springyzone]

I can understand your hesitation with this second buyer. It seems a bit of an aggressive message to send a seller if they were happy with the first purchase. Or maybe they are just nervy & grumpy people.

You could cancel their purchase but if you do go ahead and send the item (for them or any other person i guess), you could pop the empty box on a set of scales & take a photo of the weight.

Then when the box is sealed with the item in it, take a photo of the weight as recorded on the post office label.

Unless it is very tiny items you are sending, you would think the two weights would be quite different.

At least that way, if a person later queried you, you could say that it was strange as you had photos of the empty box weight and proof it was heavier when posted.

[digital*ghost]

The buyer who was causing me problems purchased (and paid for) another item before contacting me to try and claim they didn't receive the first order. They gave themselves away immediately, so I blocked them before I even replied to that message, but my heart sank when I saw they already had a new transaction - but, my actual point  , I filmed the packaging of their second order and sent it fully registered (it was going as a large letter) so I had proof of exactly what went inside the package, if I needed it, which I thought might have been preferable to my usual photo of the contents and addressed package together. I didn't think cancelling was an option at that stage, mostly because I only had strong suspicion to go on, and I doubted whether eBay would back me up on that basis (the original item was not registered, and there was no dispute etc, so at the start of everything there wasn't really anything that could prove to eBay my buyer was suspect, aside from the content of their messages, which I figured eBay would have dismissed). 

But, just to clarify, the block on buyers works immediately to prevent them from buying, at least on the IDs that are on the BBL (being blocked is what set this person off, because they tried to buy more items a short time later). They can contact via messages because they've had a transaction with a seller, so the option to prevent blocked buyers from contacting a seller will never work in those cases, I believe that may actually apply for longer than the 90 days it takes for a message to be too old to reply to, but I'm not 100% sure. 

[ozstockman]

You can also seal the box at the register in AusPost shop and ask their stuff to witness it. This way you will have a proof that the item was placed inside the box before it was handed to AutPost.

[k1ooo-slr-sales]

I

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@ozstockman wrote:

You can also seal the box at the register in AusPost shop and ask their stuff to witness it. This way you will have a proof that the item was placed inside the box before it was handed to AutPost.T

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I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say that if I worked for AP, and witnessing customers sealing boxes or providing witness statements to that effect was not part of my job description, then I would simply say to the customer asking for that level of service "sorry, can't help you with that", especially if providing such a statement may conflict with AP claims procedures for tampered items claims.

For boxed parcels, I would advocate taking a picture of the affixed postage paid label that shows the parcel weight as well as keeping the postage receipt that shows the weight, tracking number and the buyer's postcode.

If you do ask and get a sympathetic employee then what more are you suggesting they do? Provide a stat dec saying they witnessed you seal the item, or sign a pre-prepared statement you have printed out that looks all formal and official?

What level of proof along the lines of getting an AP employee to witness packing would eBay/PayPal accept?

I think that eBay and PayPal find in favour of buyers just to keep them happy and encourage them to keep buying on eBay.  Problem with this is that it encourages repeat fraudulent buyer behaviour once a buyer realises they can get their money back and keep the item if the seller decides it is not worth getting the item returned or is unwilling to pay for return postage.

[allfixelectrical]

If the buyer provides ebay with an affidavit then ebay will find in favour of the buyer.

No amount of "proof" you supply will be likely to change that situation.

Providing a counter affidavit, even with irrefutable proof won't help.

Sellers affidavits are not as good or believable as buyers affidavits, apparently.

Acorn are no help.

The local police, while sympathetic are no help.

Unless you want to throw buckets of your own money at the legal profession with no guarantees, they are no help.

https://community.ebay.com.au/t5/Buying/How-to-get-free-stuff-via-eBay/td-p/2043949

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Bidding-Buying/How-to-get-free-stuff-via-ebay/td-p/26752212

[letscleanupmycupboards]

Doesn't it go without saying that if the empty box is 200g and the parcel when posted (and shown on your receipt) was, for example, 5kg, isn't that proof it had more in it than an empty box when posted. And if indeed the buyer still says empty then that's a post office claim for you or the buyer?

[k1ooo-slr-sales]

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@allfixelectrical wrote:

https://community.ebay.com.au/t5/Buying/How-to-get-free-stuff-via-eBay/td-p/2043949

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Bidding-Buying/How-to-get-free-stuff-via-ebay/td-p/26752212

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allfix, I took a look at your links.

I remember the first one as I read it when it was an active thread.

I thought I had been taken to a Facebook page when I clicked on the second link.  That USA board layout is quite different to ours here in Australia.

[snowbunnies2016]

Instead of using ebay postage for the "Friend", take the parcel to AP and have them process it, that way you will have evidence of the weight as AP will need to process the weight and measurements. it may cost a $1 or more than ebay postage but at least you will have evidence to a point that you didn't send an empty box.

[*tippy*toes*]

If the parcel is under 500g, the exact weight is NOT recorded on the receipt. It just says 0-500g (scale). I don't know how many PO's would let you photograph the label if it's written on there (I can't remember if it is or not). I think in the case of the OP's "friend", I'd be asking to see and photograph the label at the PO, even if it means going last thing in the afternoon when it's not as busy. I also agree that if it is on the PO label, to post over the counter, rather than buy eBay labels.

If the OP wants to get sneaky, they could send the "friend" a message after posting saying the parcel weighed in at XXX grams, so the correct postage was charged, and should hopefully arrive within X days. If they know the OP knows the exact weight, it may make them think twice about claiming an empty box.

[epodcentral]

Did this persons first name start with a "T" per chance?