Had to happen eventually.

[pennyforum14]

95% of my items are posted by large letter, and for the last two years I have been photographing each item at the PO after the PO worker has applied the postage label and stamped the envelope or box (I use 16mm high letter size boxes for small items).  I woke up this morning to my first ever Paypal chargeback (in over 12 years), so I guess this becomes my test case to see if my process is worth the effort.

I have uploaded the photo of the item in question which shows it was posted to the address on the Paypal notification, on the same day it was purchased.  I also uploaded a screenshot of my feedback page showing that the buyer left positive feedback acknowledging receipt of the item.  The item was purchased and sent on 4/3, feedback was received on 11/3, and chargeback initiated on 12/3.

Anything else I need to do?  May I add this is for a $7 purchase (including postage).

[phorum_junkie*]

That happens quite a lot going by the boards, that the card holder does not even know a chargeback has been initiated.

I would always contact the buyer first to ask why they had initiated a chargeback, if they didn't then presumably they would sort it out

For a chargeback Paypal may insist on proof of delivery, their policy gives the minimum they will accept as proof for seller protection however it is worded in such a way that they can expect extra evidence.

I wouldn't try and fight it if all the proof I had was a photo, I would for an ordinary item not received but then you are no worse off if you fight it. I would not risk having to pay back the original payment plus $15 for an item that cost less than that.

[pennyforum14]

Following your post I decided I would contact the buyer.  She came back to me within 10 minutes and said the chargeback was an error on the bank's part and that she had instructed them to cancel it.  I uploaded a copy of the message to Paypal, so now I guess I wait for them to review it all and close it in my favour.

[gec2002]

While not a chargeback just an INR case, I recently had a buyer try it on after nearly 3 months that he hadn't received his DVD.  It was sent as Letter no tracking, as evidence I sent a Signed Statutory Declaration stating the date sent, street letter box used and the address sent to.  Paypal ruled against me but made a discretionary refund.  A stat dec is a legal document with heavy penalties for false statements so if they had ignored it I think they would leave themselves open to a FOS claim.

[englishrosegardens]

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@pennyforum14 wrote:

It shows it was given over the counter and accepted by the PO, they don't let you take things back once they have accepted them.  As for what was inside, how does adding a tracking number to eBay or Paypal screens provide any more evidence that what you sent was what was ordered? 

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Can you PROVE they don't let you take them back once they've accepted them?  If you've been able to take photos of them it could be argued that you were able to take them back.  I'm not saying you did take them back, but a lot of post offices would probably allow you to take them back to take the photos, and regardless of what AP's rules say, there's nothing to prove whether or not a post office abides by the rules, or that you didn't take them back.  I've been able to take items back several hours after posting them, with no proof required of anything and no record taken of what I took back, and nobody argued about it not being allowed.  Photos can also be doctored.

As for stat decs, while that would help honest sellers, I hope they're never accepted as proof because that would open the floodgates for dishonest sellers.  People will lie in court so they'd just as easily lie on a stat dec.

[jensmanchester-australia]

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@pennyforum14 wrote:

Following your post I decided I would contact the buyer.  She came back to me within 10 minutes and said the chargeback was an error on the bank's part and that she had instructed them to cancel it.  I uploaded a copy of the message to Paypal, so now I guess I wait for them to review it all and close it in my favour.

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Recently I had a long discussion with my bank re the claim that banks initiate chargebacks without the buyers knowledge.

The bank was adamant that other than in a few rare situations it is always the customer who initiates a chargeback and if the customer tells you otherwise they are lying.

Most likely your customer has been caught out by you as you approached them directly so it is easier for them to blame it on the bank. If you not queried them they would have automatically got their money back from the bank (no questions asked) as well as the goods.

[davewil1964]

Apparently one of the reasons for banks initiating them is when the customer has gone over their credit limit.

I suspect that might happen a fair bit.

[lane-ends]

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@saarzi wrote:

I havent read the other replies because, well, after a thread gets to about 5 replies Im too lazy to read them all Lol

but... I dont see how a photo at the post office will prove anything. There could be anything in that satchel, even if you took a photo as you were packing it, you could have taken it out and replaced it with something else. How have you proven its the item? How do you prove you handed it over after it was stamped? You could have taken it back.

Not saying you did, obviously, but I can image Ebay ignoring the photos, because theyre not really proof of anything.

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Item not received=all you need to prove is you sent something

Item not as described= item is faulty or wrong one.

If a buyer claims not receiving an item you dont need to prove what was sent, only that something was sent.

This case is a bank initiating chargeback for unauthorized use of card. so neither of above apply. Doesn't mattter if right item was received bank is still claiming buyer was defrauded. Doesn't matter who by.

[jensmanchester-australia]

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@davewil1964 wrote:

Apparently one of the reasons for banks initiating them is when the customer has gone over their credit limit.

I suspect that might happen a fair bit.

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That was one of the scenarios I specifically asked about and the bank said they will never initiate a chargeback because a customer has gone over their credit limit or if they are behind on their payments.

It is against the banking regulations for a bank to initiate a chargeback for those reasons.

[davewil1964]

Fair enough.

I've seen such claims here before. Foolishly I thought they might be true. I should know better.

It seems moderately ridiculous to do a chargeback for $7. After all the bank would have to cancel the card and issue a new one.

[audio-spot]

When I was working in retail (back when signatures were the norm for credit cards) we would get a chargeback claim maybe once or twice a week.

The query would have details of the amount, time and date of purchase, and usually the reason for the query (ie unrecognised transaction, fraud etc). It also stated whether the card had been presented (either swiped or inserted) or if the number had been keyed in. All that would be required from us was to fax a copy of the signed receipt, and in most cases that was enough to prove the transaction was valid.

Probably 50% of the time the card had been stolen (fraud), but we usually were covered as the signature only had to be vaguely similar, the other 50% were unrecognised transactions. These would be transactions where the cardholder had not lost the card, but were adamant that they had not made that transaction. 

Banks don't instigate chargebacks if a customer goes over their credit limit. They only will do this when a card is reported lost/stolen and transactions have occured just before the card is cancelled, or else the customer claims that they have not made that purchase. In cases where the shop name does not come up on the statement (eg instead of McDonalds, it might say the company name such as Deahloe Pty Ltd), and 1 month later when the statement comes the cardholder had no idea what that sale could be.

However, as far as I know Paypal always use their name on their transactions, so there should be no confusion as to what it is for.

A card will not be cancelled if the cardholder is only disputing one transaction.

Why you would bother for a $7 item is beyond me?