Has anyone ever sold their eBay business before?

[marks.market]

Im considering selling. Im just losing motivation to continually list stock, compete with people who undercut my prices, and posting sales. Has been 8 years. I just dont know what to sell the business for so looking for some honest opinions.

Heres the run down:

Included would be roughly $45,000 cost price in stock which has roughly $110,000 sale value, $4000 in furniture and shelving, a computer, $1000 in postal and office supplies, business accounts with Australia's 2 biggest DVD distributors, 1140 active eBay listings and stock for a further 200 or so listings, an eBay account with over 25,000 sales and over 15,200 positive feedback points at 99.9% positive rate, business name and logo. Currently earning about $15,000 - $20,000 profit a year and is easily capable of earning $30,000+ with current stock levels (just dont have the time while also working full time). This can be earned from around 2 hours work a day.

Any thoughts appreciated

[thecatspjs]

Ebays terms and conditions are full of holes including vague in places, including this area.

Electronic submission of name change is easily done and a reasonable person might expect that successful submission of those details is acceptance.

[*crikey*mate*]

ignorance of the law of contract is not a recognized excuse/defence to breach the contract. So I suggest that a "reasonable person" would seek legal guidance before purchasing an eBay account/business.

The terms and coditions in the user agreement are not vague at all in this area, at least not the copy of the Terms and Conditions that I can read.

They clearly state in section 3 of their User Agreement

Using eBay

While using the eBay services, you will not:

transfer your eBay account (including feedback) and User ID to another party without our consent;

..................................................................................................

eBay get to choose with whom they will enter a contract (just like everyone else).

The original account owner needs to take steps to terminate their contract with eBay (if that is what they want to do) and the new business owner, needs to enter into another contract with eBay.

That's just how it works.

As I pointed out earlier,

eBay may choose to enforce their original contract that is still on foot with the original business owner and they may hold that person liable for any damage caused by the breach of the contract.

Also, the new business/account owner, may find, that without that permission to "lease the space" that their business is suddenly unable to o0perate, and there is not a thing they can do, as they have not formed a contract with eBay.

So, before I spent any money on buying an eBay business, I'd be working out if I was going to be allowed to operate it on eBay's "premises".

Otherwise, I just might find that I have a whole heap of stock I have to sell, and no where to sell it.

[*crikey*mate*]

The formation of a contract requires several elements, all of which must be satisfied.

to operate an account on eBay, one needs to form a contract with eBay.

so lets break it down,

1) Offer = eBay have made no offer to the new owner of the business. (so i really don't need to go any further, however,

2) Acceptance = if no offer has occurred, then it stands to reason there is nothing to accept.

That's two elements down.

3) Consideration = No consideration has been provided for a contract between the new business owner and eBay.

That's three down.

4) Intention to be legally bound = eBay have displayed no intention to be legally bound to this new entity. How could they, if they do not even know of their existence?

5) Capacity = that one might slide through if the new owner isn't a declared bankrupt.

6) Certainty and Completeness = if the agreement has not been expressed properly as to its essential terms, then the court will not allow a legal contract to come into existence. In other words, the formation stage of the contract has not been completed in the eyes of the law because some element of the agreement between the parties has not been agreed upon to the requisite level of certainty and Completeness.

and just in case you need further convincing, we'll go for #7

7) Meeting of the minds = if eBay have no knowledge of the new entity, then how can there be a meeting of the minds?

in conclusion, there is NO contract between eBay and the new business owner, and so no guarantee that they will be allowed to even trade on eBay.

The agreement/contract made between the seller and buyer is a contract separate to eBay, and is up to those parties to ensure the legalities.

So, without ebay's permission, and thus no contract being formed between eBay and the new p[erson, then the buyer may not have a place to operate the business they just bought and would have to sue the seller, and see if they can get out of their contract. that contract has nothing to do with eBay.

[digital*ghost]

---

@chameleon54 wrote:

Much more can be achieved by asking "how can we make this work ? " rather than how can we stop this from happening ?

---

That is what I've been mulling over since the last time this topic was brought up - I have to admit I looked at the issue from the same perspective as Tazz, as well as my own perspective as a sole trader who has spent a few years building a solid reputation and product base (which is compounded some by my items often being original designs / handmade). That is, personally, I would not want to relinquish the reputation that I built if I ever did sell my business - a buyer would effectively get everything but my eBay account, cos that's all mine  (well, technically, eBay's). 

While I recognise that there are businesses that don't have the same kind of personal interest in their accounts that I do, I still also think that the feedback and DSR system as it currently stands is a bit of stumbling block to allowing trade of accounts, as well as the businesses / stores that they run. Plus the listing limits on new sellers. If these things were handled differently (I'm still thinking about different ways they could be), then the transfer of an account wouldn't have the implications it does now.

I think, for it to be workable - and it is possible for it to be workable - as has been mentioned, identity verification needs to be more stringent, perhaps restricting sale of business accounts to other members who have some established history on eBay as a seller so that other - important - eBay policies don't need to be compromised, and some sort of equivalent to "Under New Management" signs should be implemented, with - if the feedback system remains as is - maybe a clear indication separating feedback and DSRs left after the business changed hands.

With the sale of an independent website, or even a B&M store, I understand you often won't get something like that, but as a way of keeping the market informed in the way eBay can, I think it's important (or at least beneficial) for buyers to know things like that, even if in all other ways it's business as usual. 

[thecatspjs]

---

@digital*ghost wrote:

---

@chameleon54 wrote:

Much more can be achieved by asking "how can we make this work ? " rather than how can we stop this from happening ?

---

 

I think, for it to be workable - and it is possible for it to be workable - as has been mentioned, identity verification needs to be more stringent, perhaps restricting sale of business accounts to other members who have some established history on eBay as a seller so that other - important - eBay policies don't need to be compromised, and some sort of equivalent to "Under New Management" signs should be implemented, with - if the feedback system remains as is - maybe a clear indication separating feedback and DSRs left after the business changed hands.

 

---

I think that would be a most transparent way DG.

In relation to the user agreement the way eBay have engineered it through current available processes and a lack of detailed policy or instruction, a change of contact name for a business is all that seems to be required.   This is consistent with their paltry identification process for starting an ID.

I tend to think it will continue the way it has, the blind eye approach, with eBay businesses changing hands all the time without effect on an existing ID.

[thecatspjs]

I am sure I have seen those points about contract formation on a powerpoint presentation somewhere ... easily googled.

[chameleon54]

CRIKEY - All of your arguments about existing contracts etc. are well thought out and valid as things stand at the moment. My point all along has been that perhaps it is time for some changes to better reflect the modern ebay as it is currently configured. Ebay could simply institute changes with an addendum to existing contracts that are agreed by the seller and ebay, upon a sellers request to transfer an existing business. DG and cats have offered some insightfull views on how the issue of change of ownership could be signalled to the existing customer base, reducing the chance of buyers mis-understanding who exactly it is they are dealing with. . I believe it is time ebay looked at how the current process could be modified to more easily and transparently allow the sale of existing accounts.

[*crikey*mate*]

---

@fred_foofighter wrote:

Yes but the account hasn't changed the business is still operating as XYZ pty ltd with ebay ID XYZ only the share holders of the business have changed.  Isn't a Pty Ltd an entity of itself so the account hasn't transferred.

---

I have been thinking aboutn this as it was a very interesting point.

When you read the requirements of a business account, it is for you to register the business name that you own.

"Opening a business membership with eBay is essentially the same process as registering as an individual member, with the additional advantage of being able to add your business name to your account."

Registering as a Business

So, it is still the nominated owner of that business forming the contract with eBay. If a new "owner" were to "come on board" they would then need to form their own contract with eBay. it is not the business entity forming the contract,

[*crikey*mate*]

---

@chameleon54 wrote:

CRIKEY - All of your arguments about existing contracts etc. are well thought out and valid as things stand at the moment. My point all along has been that perhaps it is time for some changes to better reflect the modern ebay as it is currently configured. Ebay could simply institute changes with an addendum to existing contracts that are agreed by the seller and ebay, upon a sellers request to transfer an existing business. DG and cats have offered some insightfull views on how the issue of change of ownership could be signalled to the existing customer base, reducing the chance of buyers mis-understanding who exactly it is they are dealing with. . I believe it is time ebay looked at how the current process could be modified to more easily and transparently allow the sale of existing accounts.

---

I do undersdtand what you are saying, I do.

But this is a decision for eBay to determine if they want to take thier business in that direction. it is their business and they get to decide with who they want to form a contract.

eBay have not said they will prevent a change of ownership, only that they want to know, and as is their right, they get to choose with who they enter a contract. It probably is as simple as a name change, but it has to be with consent and MUTUAL agreement.

Every business and every person gets to choose with who they wish to contract.It is not a pre determined right.

On reflection, I am not even sure that term was inserted to prevent, or make the issue of sale difficult or restrictive, only that the elements of contract law have to be addressed, and this is eBay's acknowledgement or inclusion of that, without "breaking out" the contract law slide shows. That is the job of the legals, not eBay.

In short, one contract has to be terminated, and another one formed. Both of which can only be done with mutual consent. That's not even policy, that's law.

I am sure that we can come up with 100 ways that business ownership could be "advertised" so that people know "who they are dealing with", That is not really the issue bought up in the OP of this thread. but eBay also have the right to know who they are dealing with and to also determine if they even want to.

Anyone can sell their business, eBay cannot prevent that, but they can determine who they allow to use their platform, just because a person wants to use it, doesn't mean that eBay has to accept them.

What would happen in the instance of a person previously banned from using eBay were to buy the business/account? eBay have already exercized their right not to contract with that person, buying another business doesn't negate that. Scammers or other poor business operators from the past could just keep buying new businesses/accounts, so what would be the point of eBay even banning anyone? Isn't the goal to create a safe trading environment? How does eBay do that if they have no control over who is trading here?

It is no different to the world of B&M, where the owner of a building gets to choose to who they lease some space in which to trade.

..............................................................

and to be honest, I'd actually be a bit peeved if when I started I had to abide by selling restrictions etc (which I didn't, as I joined before they came in) and then I got wind of a newbie just waltzing in without having to "earn their stripes".

So I think it only fair on us as sellers, that eBay know who is operating/responsible for the business so that, if required they can impose relevant seller restrictions.

This also has implications for someone buying a business that has 1000 listings and turns over x amount. (can't remember the figures in the OP) Most new sellers have quite low limits until eBay are confident with their performance. Why should this be any different for someone who buys their business rather than builds it?

[colic2bullsgirlore]

So if you do a sold listings search on the keywords ebay business for sale you will find a business that had 60 FRENZIED?? bids......

Some people that were looking to buy that internet business (but surprisingly ended up being outbid???) have an unusual common trait in that they also bid on LEGO

.....just saying...

Some interesting feedback comments too for the sold account

......patterns.. I lerv patterns...

Shill be right mate

Spoiler

h***n ( 32)

 Business > Internet Businesses 16     Seller 1     3d 20h
Video Games & Consoles > Games 1     Seller 2     <1h
Toys, Hobbies > LEGO     4     Seller 1     1d 20h
Toys, Hobbies > LEGO     2     Seller 1     3d 23h
Toys, Hobbies > LEGO     4     Seller 1     3d 20h
Toys, Hobbies > LEGO     2     Seller 1     1d 23h
Toys, Hobbies > LEGO     6     Seller 1     1d 14h
Phones > Mobile Phones     1     Seller 3     <1h
Phones > Mobile Phones     1     Seller 4     <1h
Phones > Mobile Phones     1     Seller 5     <1h
Toys, Hobbies > LEGO     2     Seller 1     1d 23h
Toys, Hobbies > LEGO     2     Seller 1     <1h
Business > Internet Businesses

d***p ( 39)

Business > Internet Businesses 4     Seller 1     2d 4h
Toys, Hobbies > LEGO     1     Seller 1     3d 17h
Business > Internet Businesses 5     Seller 2     <1h


Excellent communication and postage, received item 1 day after postage 10/10Buyer:2***2 ( 30) 02-Jan-14 20:00

Great communication and fast postage 10/10 Buyer:2***2 ( 30)23-Dec-13 15:45

Great communication and fast postage 10/10 Buyer:2***2 ( 30)23-Dec-13 15:44

Great communication and fast postage 10/10Buyer:2***2 ( 30)16-Dec-13 19:58

Great communication and fast postage 10/10Buyer:2***2 ( 30)16-Dec-13 19:58

Excellent communication and postage, received item 1 day after postage 10/10Buyer: 2***2  (30) 13-Dec-13 14:03

Great communication and fast postage 10/10Buyer:2***2  (30) 28-Nov-13 15:48

Great communication and fast postage 10/10Buyer:2***2  (30) 16-Nov-13 10:11

2nd purchase, great service fast postage and great communication Buyer:2***2 (30) 3013-Nov-13 13:42   

Excellent communication and postage, received item 1 day after postage 10/10Buyer: 2***2  (30) 18-Oct-13 18:41

Bid retractions (6 months):     23
Great seller    8***8 ( 72) 23-Nov-13 12:43

NICE EARN IF YOU CAN GET IT