Having an issue with a buyer - what to do

[melbournebaddie]

Hello

A customer purchased a leather jacket, she received the leather jacket and has messaged me saying that while she was happy with the jacket itself she believes it smells of perspiration.

I know that this is not the case because it was dry cleaned and not worn since being dry cleaned (sitting in a storage unit in a container of items that would not be taken to my new home but would be 'sold').

I stated in the listing that the jacket has always had a 'strong odour', it is a different type of leather that even some drycleaners cannot clean as a specific product has to be used on it. For example the smell would linger in the closet  or on your arms after you wore it.

I'm quite frustrated as it cost $100 to be drycleaned and I do not know how she cannot differentiate between the smell of perspiration and the smell of leather/chemicals

I don't know how to proceed, I sent a response asking what she would like to do but I do not see why I should have to refund when the item is as described and I know it did not smell of persperation.

What should be done in this situation?

[countessalmirena]

Dear [buyer],

Thank you for your last communication.

I am so sorry that you feel unhappy about the smell of the leather. As mentioned several times, this is a distinctive leather smell, as various leathers can smell quite different to each other, depending upon how the leather was treated. (For example, see https://leathersupreme.com/why-does-leather-smell-like-leather/)

You've expressed that this jacket's aroma is something you do not like, and that does not come under Not as Described. Ordinarily I would not accept a change of mind return which this comes under, but as I have mentioned, I am happy to accept this jacket back (in the same condition as when it was sent) as it's a gorgeous jacket that I'd love to see go to someone who's as happy with it as I was.

I am making this offer of a return inter alia to the conditions stated in the listing. The cost of return postage falls on the buyer in this case. Please ensure it is sent by tracked postage method to the following address [address].

Kind regards,

[name]

But before you send that sort of message, I'd be phoning eBay (https://www.ebay.com.au/help/call_me?initFrom=HOME) and explain the situation, pointing out that you described the distinct aroma in the listing, that this aroma is not perspiration as you have for several years had underarm Botox treatment (which blocks the uptake of acetylcholine in the glands, so that sweating does not occur) and you're happy to prove this by uploading receipts for the treatment, that you in any case had the jacket dry cleaned by a specialist dry cleaner before selling it and you're happy to prove this by uploading the receipt.

Ask for a definite reply on the issue of the buyer's complaint being change of mind rather than not as described.

(Also briefly touch on the issue of the buyer thinking that their (presumably inexpert) knowledge of leather smells constitutes any sort of evidence - which it doesn't. The lady could have defective olfactory issues, or the treatment of this particular leather may be a type she's not previously encountered - none of which equals "not as described" in my opinion. BUT - you need to get this affirmed by eBay CS.)

I always suggest that if you're going to be in a phone conversation with eBay or PayPal, record the call. (Of course get permission at the start when you put speakerphone on and begin recording - "I am going to record this call for clarity purposes - is that okay?" CS rep must agree, otherwise you'll have to turn off the recording device.)

If you don't get permission - and even if you DO - take good notes throughout. Who, date, time, substance of call, specific details - and then summarise at the end. Each point needs to be summarised and then you ask the CS rep to agree. E.g., "The jacket smell is included in the listing and thus a complaint about the smell would not constitute a reason for claiming not as described, is that correct?" CS rep - "That's correct." "And you accept my evidence that the jacket was dry-cleaned before being sent to the buyer, is that correct?" CS rep - "That's correct." ... etc.

[brerrabbit585]

The bottom line is that if you don't pay for her to return it, ebay will probably refund her the whole lot and she'll get to keep the jacket.

Just as an aside, I used to do a lot of leatherwork years ago and I always laugh at people saying they love the smell of leather. It's not the leather they can smell, it's the dyes and other finishes used on it that you can smell.

[lupercal]

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She doesn’t want to pay to post it back she thinks this should be at my expense. What would you do?

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What I would do - and this is just me - is just write this off as 'breakage' so to speak; pay the postage if you think that would keep ebay out of it and/or avoid negative feedback, just get the jacket back, block the bidder from any further bidding, and re-sell it to a normal person at a better price -  which would presumably be enough to  more than pay for return postage.  At the end of the day she might be doing you a favour by insisting you take it back.

I would do all I reasonably could to keep this 'private' and avoid ebay being actively involved in any sort of arbitration, as they don't have much of a reputation for siding with the seller, and have the ability to record a strike against you even when you completely comply with the buyer and them. Of course, as I mentioned, nothing will stop someone leaving negative feedback if they're bloody-minded enough, but if they do so, despite your being reasonable with them, it might just be the least bad outcome.

OTOH if the buyer does get ebay involved, I would certainly be doing everything I could to speak to them and to appear as reasonable and open as possible. BTW, they ought to be able to give you a reference number for any phone conversation, if you mention that you want some evidence of what was discussed (ebay reps, at least in dealings with me, have a frustrating habit of assuring me that such-and-such will somehow maghically happen, and when I've asked for some assurance, they've made a note on my file and given me a reference number which I can quote in relation to their statements)

It's a cool jacket. If I weren't male and 6'4" I might buy it myself 🙂

[digital*ghost]

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@brerrabbit585 wrote:
The bottom line is that if you don't pay for her to return it, ebay will probably refund her the whole lot and she'll get to keep the jacket.

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Not necessarily, it's actually more common for the dispute to close in the seller's favour if no tracking showing delivery is ever uploaded by the buyer, regardless of what kind of dispute was opened, or whether the seller pays for the return.

Sellers run into trouble like that by disputing INAD requests and / or doing nothing within the actual request console, giving the buyer the chance to escalate to eBay, but if a seller approves a return, the ball is pretty much* back in the buyer's court and they have a deadline to upload tracking. It's nothing short of blackmail, JMHO, but it can sometimes call buyers out on a bluff. 

*I say pretty much because the above is common, but not 100% guaranteed, it can depend on a couple of other circumstances, and the nature of the actual claim, though the things that can often affect the above don't seem to be applicable here. Plus, occasionally eBay will automatically supply the buyer with return postage and just add it as a charge to the seller's account. 

[digital*ghost]

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@melbournebaddie wrote:


Hello, I have tried airing this jacket. The awful smell is still there. This is not a leather smell . Leather has an aroma all its own and it is delightful, I love it. I have been using leather products for over 50 yrs, so I know what it is supposed to smell like. I would like to do a 'NAD' return please.

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Makes me wonder how old she actually is, lol   I guess it's irrelevant, just kind of bemusing as I'm in my early 40's and I stoppped expecting / wanting things for my birthday some 15-20 years ago, and stopped trying to exploit it about 30+ years ago (i.e. the whole "but it's my birdthay" pout thing). 

But, this buyer has already proven they will say whatever it takes to get what they want, so "50 years working with leather", sounds a lot like the buyer who told me "I'm a JP and would never lie" (but whose name was mysteriously not on the very public registry). 

[eol-products]

Most of the chemicals used are quite toxic in the tanning process so does make you wonder what they like the smell off.

[countessalmirena]

Digital*ghost, perhaps this lady is 51, having dressed herself in her own smart leather nappies as an infant.

In that case, it would be the smell of leather and... something else... which would linger most persistently in her memory.

[melbournebaddie]

Some of the responses on here have been amusing to read haha
But thank you everyone for your input.

The last message I received was:

‘I will take action on Monday or Tuesday - persons name’ no hello or anything, very curt.

As I told her I am interstate until Monday, yesterday.

[digital*ghost]

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@melbournebaddie wrote:

The last message I received was:

‘I will take action on Monday or Tuesday - persons name’ no hello or anything, very curt.

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Just thought I'd double check if the buyer has actually opened a formal request using a not as described reason? If they have, just be careful with how it's handled from your end, because things can go pear-shaped very quickly when eBay gets involved (see my post #34 above - approving a request doesn't necessarily mean agreeing to pay return postage, but you can also get in touch with eBay by phone. If they agree with you that scent is not grounds for INAD [and in most cases it's not] they should advise you to accept the request but process it as a change of mind return; having that on record will help a lot if something goes wrong. You could also request an email copy of anything you're advise on the phone [recommended anyway] and screenshot it for the buyer if they try to cause more trouble). 

[*tippy*toes*]

Curious is there are any more updates on this?