Return for refund - where do I stand?

[dallmanblack]

Hi,

I recently sold an item to a US buyer - item was fully insured and quite expensive, as was shipping (heavy item). The item was in absolutely perfect condition when shipped, but the buyer has claimed it was damaged on arrival. I have asked the buyer to retain the packaging as evidence, in order to lodge a claim with AP, should the damage have been incurred in transit, but she now tells me she disposed of it straightaway. She has contacted Ebay, who of course are siding with her, no questions asked (and needless to say the payment has been held).  What can I do to prove my case, other than provide pics of the item immediately prior to posting showing the item in perfect condition....? (which will probably be ignored)
Furthermore, I can't help but wondering -  if I have no recourse, what was the point having extra-cover....? Has anyone here had this experience? Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks. 🙂

[phorum_junkie*]

For a damage claim during delivery it is the recipient who has to claim bec\ause they have the packaging etc. The only way the sender can complain is if the buyer signs over the right to make that claim, I don't know if that is possible for an overseas delivery and it doesn't sound as if the buyer would put themselves out anyway.

Have you asked for photos of the damage or a damage report? Ebay should at least let you get that before they decide in the buyer's favour however if the item is damaged and the buyer shows that then you have no choice but to refund.

The only point in having insurance in this case would be so you were covered for the full amount if the parcel went missing.

[dallmanblack]

Thanks phorum for your FB. I am 99.9% sure the damage occurred on opening of the parcel. I should have mentioned, the buyer sent a photo, and the damage is consistent with having been opened with a sharp implement and lack of due care. I know if I were her, and the packaging showed signs of damage on arrival,  I'd have made sure to keep it for claim purposes. So.....what is there to stop anyone from doing this? I know I speak for many sellers when I say I can't afford to give away products to potentially dishonest buyers AND pay for international postage (one way, let alone return postage). Do I stop selling overseas....?  Have other sellers made this decision, based on the Ebay 'automatic' refund policy....?

[kopenhagen5]

I recently had one from France.

I purchased and it arrived damaged due to poor packing.

I received a refund and the seller made a claim with the postal service as they had the contract with the carrier. (French postal service)

French post then contact Aust post and in turn rang me to see if I could return the item and packing to the local PO which I gladly did.

I signed over the item and the local post office retain it for a period of 3 months in case it needs to be inspected by head office.

If not and Aust Post finalize the the claim, the item is thrown out but seeing as I know the local PO, they said I am welcome to have it for parts after 3 months providing head office haven't needed it as evidence.

I think the norm on eBay is that the buyer takes in the damaged item with packing to the carrier to have it deemed as adequate or inadequately packaged. If deemed adequately damaged it is then the seller that needs to lodge the claim with the carrier as they have the contract with them and the buiyer makes the claim with the seller.

Inadequately packed, the buyer makes the claim with the seller and the seller knows a a claim with the carrier will most likely be unsuccessful due to packing unless insurance has been taken out.

[dallmanblack]

In my case the buyer claims to have disposed of the packaging. According to her, she did so prior to contacting me. Which leaves me nowhere to go, by the look of things. Her argument is that I should have told her to keep the packaging for proof of damage - a bit late after she's thrown it away! I told her it I felt it would have been common sense to keep it, were her claim legitimate.

I'm loathe to include a message in parcels requesting buyers keep any packaging in case of claims as I wouldn't want to give unscrupulous buyers any ideas. 

It is patently clear Ebay has no interest in protecting sellers, but surely we have a right to demand (and receive) some sort of protection.....don't sellers have any legal recourse?

[kopenhagen5]

Well if it's fully insured you need to get onto the provider and find out if it covers damage and make a claim.

As PJ says, I would be asking for photos of the damage. (You will need it for a claim)

Does the damage mean the item does not work or is it only cosmetic damage?

Perhaps a part refund can be agreed upon if the damage is minor.

[dallmanblack]

Yes, she did send a few photos on my request, but they were so close up it was hard to see the scale of the damage or where it was situated. I asked her to send a photo of the entire item which she reluctantly did,  but this time they were too far away to show enough detail.  As mentioned, the fabric appeared to have been cut, my educated guess by her when opening the parcel. It boils down to her response. Her - 'how does she know the item wasn't sent damaged?'  Me - 'it was of course in perfect condition and I have the photos (used in the listing) to prove it.' Her -  'it could be another item, how would anyone know it was the same one' ? Me - 'because they have the same JPG no.' 

It's her word against mine. At this stage it appears I have lost AU$330 on the item's value and AU$225 on shipping. I simply can't afford the return shipping. Imagine this occurring to sellers on a regular basis, let alone once. It's untenable. How is this situation even possible? Ebay needs to be answerable to someone, surely??

[kopenhagen5]

I am guessing but if it's an article of clothing, unfotunately she may know exactly what she is doing and you may have been scammed.

You are right the system shouldn't allow it. 

All I can suggest is to make sure eBay receive the photos of item prior to sending and call them to confirm they are in receipt of photos. Also check buyers feedback to see if there is a pattern of "receiving" damaged goods.

[dallmanblack]

Thanks K - I'll give it a shot - even if it doesn't change anything, at least I'll know I tried. 🙂

[*tippy*toes*]

When you contact eBay, whatever you do, DO NOT ask them to step in and help. The instant you do, they will close the case in the buyers favour. It is pretty much instantaneous. Once that happens, there is nothing you can do.

As for her questioning whether the item you sent is the one in the photo, how do you know the item in the photos she sent is the same one you sent?

Sounds to me like she bought it for an occasion, the occasion has happened and she has no further use for the dress. Some buyers just claim not as described to get a refund, others will deliberately damage and say it arrived that way. Either way, they get their refund and most of the time, get to keep the dress as well (eBay encourages shoplifting).