Shipping Methods that meet criteria for PayPal Seller Protection?

[2012rly]

Hi, Can anyone tell me what methods of Australia Post parcel post meet the criteria for PayPal Seller Protection now that Registered is no longer available? Is Tracking sufficient (ie normal parcel post) or do you also need Signature? I rang PayPal, but couldn't seem to get a straight answer. Thanks!

[digital*ghost]

There are some minimal requirements that qualify as proof of post (eg receipt with buyer's postcode), but IMHO to have the best chance of successfully defending a claim, you need documentation that shows the address the parcel was sent to is the same as the address on the payment notification, as well as proof that it was at least posted (like a lodgement receipt or tracking event). While registered is no longer an option for parcels (it's still available for letters), signature on delivery is an optional extra ($2.95) and should give you that (note that SOD does not include any insurance like registered did, that's an extra $1.50 per $100, or part thereof).

Click and Send also provides that documentation, whether you are using the eBay flat rate satchels or processing standard parcels (online). Just be sure your PO knows how to process the standard ones, because many don't and attach new tracking numbers / barcodes to the parcels so that the original tracking number never shows a scan event). 

Express post should also provide all the right documentation, as long as you don't use pre-paid satchels, and I think Express Post Platinum will also provide it, even if using pre-paid satchels.

[this-way-up]

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@2012rly wrote:

Hi, Can anyone tell me what methods of Australia Post parcel post meet the criteria for PayPal Seller Protection now that Registered is no longer available? Is Tracking sufficient (ie normal parcel post) or do you also need Signature? I rang PayPal, but couldn't seem to get a straight answer. Thanks!

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A tracking number is fine. If the item does not fit in a pre-paid satchel with tracking, then you can get a tracking number label which comes with signature requirement (like registered).

The main thing to remember, is to put the tracking number on the listing within 24 hours of posting. It is a good idea to ask the PO to scan the number into their system while you are there. That way, as soon as you get home the tracking number will be active.

I know I will be told that I am wrong...but being told you are wrong and being wrong are two different things 🙂 Paypal cannot give you a straight answer because they don't have one ! The buyer gets protection not the seller. If a buyer asks Paypal for a refund then the seller almost automatically does not qualify for seller protection. A buyer can only ask for a refund for two reasons. Either not received or not as described... If not received, the only hope for the seller is the tracking number. All the tracking does is show that something was sent - there is no proof of what was sent. If they claim not as described the seller loses again because all Paypal can do assume the buyer is right because Paypal have not seen the item. So all Paypal can do is ask the buyer to send the item back and in return, Paypal take (by force) the money out of the seller's account and refund the buyer, including posatage!

And just to add insult to injury...If a buyer does win a refund request through Paypal (as if they can lose) then Paypal also refund the fees out of the seller's account...eg. If the item is $50 then the seller gets about $48.50. The $1.50 is fees...When the buyer is granted a refund the whole $50 is taken from the seller.

[digital*ghost]

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@this-way-up wrote:

A tracking number is fine. If the item does not fit in a pre-paid satchel with tracking, then you can get a tracking number label which comes with signature requirement (like registered).

The main thing to remember, is to put the tracking number on the listing within 24 hours of posting. It is a good idea to ask the PO to scan the number into their system while you are there. That way, as soon as you get home the tracking number will be active.

I know I will be told that I am wrong...but being told you are wrong and being wrong are two different things 🙂 Paypal cannot give you a straight answer because they don't have one ! The buyer gets protection not the seller. If a buyer asks Paypal for a refund then the seller almost automatically does not qualify for seller protection. A buyer can only ask for a refund for two reasons. Either not received or not as described... If not received, the only hope for the seller is the tracking number. All the tracking does is show that something was sent - there is no proof of what was sent. If they claim not as described the seller loses again because all Paypal can do assume the buyer is right because Paypal have not seen the item. So all Paypal can do is ask the buyer to send the item back and in return, Paypal take (by force) the money out of the seller's account and refund the buyer, including posatage!

And just to add insult to injury...If a buyer does win a refund request through Paypal (as if they can lose) then Paypal also refund the fees out of the seller's account...eg. If the item is $50 then the seller gets about $48.50. The $1.50 is fees...When the buyer is granted a refund the whole $50 is taken from the seller.

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To clarify some of the things stated in this post...

A tracking number alone is not sufficient proof - there needs to be supporting documentation that shows the parcel attached to that tracking number was sent to the buyer's address. That's why normal parcel post and express pre-paid satchels will not qualify for Seller Protection (they have tracking numbers, but they do not provide any other documentation showing where the parcel was sent). Think about it for a moment... If the tracking number alone was sufficient, all a dodgy seller would need to do is send one parcel with a tracking number, then use it to defend any INR claim that might arise. It doesn't work. 

Uploading the tracking number to eBay will not help defend a PayPal claim, for the same reason as above.

If PayPal issue a refund to the buyer, the refund the fees paid to them. If the payment was $50, then the $48~ is taken from the seller, and the remaining amount paid by PayPal.

[bigbrickshop]

The actual wording according to PayPal:

What is proof of shipment?

For sellers, we require proof of shipment from you if a buyer files a chargeback or reversal for an unauthorised payment, or if the buyer claims the item wasn't received.

For buyers, if you file a claim for a 'significantly not-as-described' item, we may require you to ship the item back to the Seller. You will be required to show proof of shipment.

Buyers and sellers, at the very least, must provide documentation that includes the date the item was sent, plus one of:

• An official acceptance by the shipper, such as a postmark or online status (status that shows the item was delivered is also acceptable)
• The recipient's delivery address showing at least the state, city and postcode (or international equivalent)
• A receipt from Australia Post showing at least the recipient's suburb, city or postcode (or international equivalent)

https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/security/sell-shippingrecommendations

[this-way-up]

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@digital*ghost wrote:

If PayPal issue a refund to the buyer, the refund the fees paid to them. If the payment was $50, then the $48~ is taken from the seller, and the remaining amount paid by PayPal.

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I have thought about it. The actual tracking method only confirms that "something" was sent and delivered.

A buyer can only claim either not received OR not as described... OK, not received is pretty easy. If the buyer did not get the item then they did not get it and all the tracking in the world will only confirm that "something" was delivered. That is why I used the word "almost". As for not as described, with out referring to any individuals, people have great difficulty in understanding what they read. I guess that is why we see so many listings that simply say "see the photos".

I can assure you, because I have a screen shot of my account to prove it. Paypal take the full amount paid by the buyer including postage and fees the very second that a buyer clicks on the refund button. The funds are placed "on hold". If by chance the buyer does not comply with the proccess and the funds are given back to the seller, the amount given back is less the fees...and I have the screen shots to prove it ! If the buyer does actually get the refund it includes the fees that Paypal have been paid, Paypal do not give the fees back to the seller.

The main question the OP is asking, is how to qualify for seller protection when Paypal are not giving a straight answer...The answer is - It is "almost" immpossible to qualify for seller protection and that is why Paypal are not giving a straight answer 🙂

[digital*ghost]

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@this-way-up wrote:

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@digital*ghost wrote:

If PayPal issue a refund to the buyer, the refund the fees paid to them. If the payment was $50, then the $48~ is taken from the seller, and the remaining amount paid by PayPal.

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I have thought about it. The actual tracking method only confirms that "something" was sent and delivered.

A buyer can only claim either not received OR not as described... OK, not received is pretty easy. If the buyer did not get the item then they did not get it and all the tracking in the world will only confirm that "something" was delivered. That is why I used the word "almost". As for not as described, with out referring to any individuals, people have great difficulty in understanding what they read. I guess that is why we see so many listings that simply say "see the photos".

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In answer to the question Is Tracking sufficient (ie normal parcel post) or do you also need Signature?, you replied "A tracking number is fine" - I don't see the word almost in that answer, and went on to say that if an item won't fit into a pre-paid satchel, then pay for SOD to get the tracking number. 

You also said "the only hope for the seller is the tracking number". I still don't see any "almost" in that.

If I have a stamped lodgement receipt showing that an article was sent to the right address, even without a tracking number I will be able to use it to successfully defend an INR claim. The purpose of my response to you is that a tracking number alone is not the seller's "only hope", and it is not "fine" if that's all you have.

I was wrong about the refund issue, though - I have never had a payment forcefully refunded from my account, only voluntarily, and in that case the fees were paid back by PayPal. 

[thecatspjs]

Proof of shipment (or sending) is different from proof of addressee.  I recall proof of addressee details it is mentioned under eligibility section for seller protection.

Whilst paypal appear to accept lodgement receipt with postcode details as proof of addressee on occassion - their agreement is written in such a way that it is not a given.

I would never send anything prepaid without filling out a AP lodgement form and having stamped by post office at lodgement and attaching tracking number to that.  It takes a few extra minutes, but well worth the peace of mind - as well as providing AP addressee proof in missing parcel investigation when pursuing compensation.

[this-way-up]

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@digital*ghost wrote:

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In answer to the question Is Tracking sufficient (ie normal parcel post) or do you also need Signature?, you replied "A tracking number is fine" - I don't see the word almost in that answer, and went on to say that if an item won't fit into a pre-paid satchel, then pay for SOD to get the tracking number. 

You also said "the only hope for the seller is the tracking number". I still don't see any "almost" in that.

If I have a stamped lodgement receipt showing that an article was sent to the right address, even without a tracking number I will be able to use it to successfully defend an INR claim. The purpose of my response to you is that a tracking number alone is not the seller's "only hope", and it is not "fine" if that's all you have.

I was wrong about the refund issue, though - I have never had a payment forcefully refunded from my account, only voluntarily, and in that case the fees were paid back by PayPal. 

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I said for all to see above in my first post -

The buyer gets protection not the seller. If a buyer asks Paypal for a refund then the seller almost automatically does not qualify for seller protection.

I have increased the size of the "almost" just to make it easier to see 🙂

I also said in a later post -

As for not as described, with out referring to any individuals, people have great difficulty in understanding what they read. I guess that is why we see so many listings that simply say "see the photos".

As others have stated, just a tracking number is fine...It will show where it was sent from and where it gets delivered to.

I have never been through a "voluntarily" refund...I was not given the choice. I just woke up one morning to read an email saying that MY money was on hold. I didn't even know there was a problem because the buyer has never contacted me...The fact that Paypal had sent me an email 2 weeks earlier stating (I think in red bold letters) that the item qualified for seller protection means sweet f...nothing ! 

[digital*ghost]

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this-way-up wrote:

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I said for all to see above in my first post -

The buyer gets protection not the seller. If a buyer asks Paypal for a refund then the seller almost automatically does not qualify for seller protection.

I have increased the size of the "almost" just to make it easier to see 🙂

I also said in a later post -

As for not as described, with out referring to any individuals, people have great difficulty in understanding what they read. I guess that is why we see so many listings that simply say "see the photos".

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I never addressed either of those points in my posts. I have explained to you the points I addressed.

If you wish me to engage with you in a respectful discussion, don't accuse me of doing something you're doing yourself, and don't do it in a condescending manner.