eBay's postage fee... here we go again!

[backlogs]

Hello to everybody who might happen to read this.

I only use this account to browse on ebay to get an idea of prices for items I list elsewhere.

I'll never sell or buy on ebay ever again due to their illegal postage fee.

I know this has been covered so many times and I know there's been so much information and links to the relevant websites, but the following information and link to the ACCC website proves in a nutshell (as far as I'm concerned) that what they do from profiting from a service they don't provide is illegal as much as ACCC or any organisation does nothing about - so it's up to the individual to take a stance against them just like I have, but instead of rambling on about what I'm doing on behalf of all Australian ebay users and to make ebay pay back every cent they've stolen... here's the information and link to the ACCC website:

The Australian consumer law prohibits businesses from misleading consumers (ie: their illegal postage fee should be displayed next to the postage cost just as GST has to be displayed).  It also prohibits them from accepting payment (for products and/or services) if they do not intend to supply (those same products and/or services).

http://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/sales-delivery/non-delivery-of-products-services

I'll leave that with yourselves and whether you take a stance against them too is totally up to yourselves.  Everyone knows (or should know) that this place if "rife" with unfair business practices and policies, but when they conduct in illegal activities and decide to steal money from the very people who make them money then that's my justification for my own stance against them.

Cheers!

[dylan11235813]

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@joethenuts wrote:

yes but have they [ebay] any option to charge a fee on the total cost+ postage, 

i once before the changes paid $1 for an item with $90 postage   to me it did not matter as about $90 would of been about right in fact it should of been $70 + $21 postage   ebay instead of getting aprox $7  on a 9,9% fee they   got 10cents in fees.

no good complaining unless someone has a better solution

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I shouldn;t have to find a solution. Ebay are charging a fee for a service they do not provide. Even if it could be claimed that they somehow do, it is even less so now that paypal handle all the funds. Maybe that was the plan to start with, buy paypal, put in policies, and then sell it.

[digital*ghost]

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@aussie.grazing.boards wrote:
Customers don't care how much you want for your item, plus shipping, plus PayPal, plus FVF. They just want to know how much you want for your product. They expect you to do the maths beforehand, and not expect them to do it before the purchase. (IE add the price for the item plus the postage).

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I feel quite strongly about this issue, so I thought I should mention beforehand that it's going to be quite evident from my tone - it's the issue that gets to me, not what you're saying, so although I'm responding to you, I hope you don't take my tone personally.

There is a significant difference between being able to work with, and/or accomodate a change, and thinking that change is fair and/or justifiable. People do not have to agree with everything eBay does in order to justify being here, either (referring to the previous comment about eBay not having a gun to our heads - yes, it's my choice to be here, and in order to stay here there are some things I have to accept, and move on with, but just because I'm capable of doing that, it doesn't mean I think eBay is perfect, or that I shouldn't say anything against them). 

I have an eBay store, I've worked with the change, and it's not even possible to break down my prices displayed in listings any further than product price + postage, and I wouldn't even if I could. I have to do it when I set those prices, as does every other person who lists on ebay, so they certainly become part of the discussion when issues like this are raised. 

The thing is, it's not as easy for everyone to accomodate this change. Yes, it's really simple to take an example using a basic postage cost and go "see how easy it is to work this out?" (referring to joe's example here), but here's another example...

A heavy-ish item being sent with Australia Post, calculated postage being used in the listing. It shows as $8 postage to a buyer in the same state, and $20 postage to a buyer in another state.

How does the seller calculate the FVF on postage, and incorporate it into their pricing, when they don't even know how much FVF they're going to have to pay? 

Add international shipping into the mix, suddenly postage could range from $8 (an 80c FVF), to $50 (a $5 FVF). 

Yes, that can still be worked with to a degree, some sellers will charge an average on each item, some will incorporate the max FVF into a price to ensure they don't lose out (if their items can accomodate such an increase), and so on, but it's not as simple for everyone as some of the posts here are suggesting. 

Also, I do not believe for one second charging FVF on postage was eBay's only option to counter postage piracy. I do believe it was sheer greed and laziness that made it the most attractive option for them (and to note, as soon as they introduced FVF on postage, sellers couldn't get a defect for postage costs, and since change of mind returns don't include refunds of postage costs, it's not like a seller doesn't have any incentive whatsoever for inflating them still). 

And what of all the honest sellers, which I believe were / are in the majority, who did set prices and postage fairly all along? Especially the ones who sell lower value items with high postage costs, often equal to (or even more) than their item prices, and where the market wouldn't accept large increases to pricing? Someone selling $10 books that weighed over 500g and with $12 postage would have had their eBay fees more than double overnight.

But yeah, it's a fait accompli, right, so no point complaining about it, or even pointing out if I can work with it, everyone else should be able to as well. >_> 

[joethenuts]

well i dont know a few rorters  ,  i have no figurs either do you , but it would of been huge , maybe charging full fees on postage is a bit much maybe bringing it down by a % might of been the right call.     at the end of the day [they can do it] they dont hide it from anybody.   as i said  i brought 1 item that ebay would of colected about $7  and colected about 10 cents   now whay % did they loose just on 1 item   now i dont know what you earn an hour but lets say $28   and only getting 40 cents at the end . would you take it. changes have to happen , and yes some spoil it for everyone.

[joethenuts]

to digi you have some great points , what ever changes that had to be done is not going to please everyone , but i asume the magority of sales are fixed postage items  ala letters and sachels , so its easy to alow extra postage ,sure weighted items are a bit more harder, buts its hard for a balance,   as i have been asking what was ebays options , very simple question 

[dylan11235813]

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@joethenuts wrote:

well i dont know a few rorters  ,  i have no figurs either do you , but it would of been huge , maybe charging full fees on postage is a bit much maybe bringing it down by a % might of been the right call.     at the end of the day [they can do it] they dont hide it from anybody.   as i said  i brought 1 item that ebay would of colected about $7  and colected about 10 cents   now whay % did they loose just on 1 item   now i dont know what you earn an hour but lets say $28   and only getting 40 cents at the end . would you take it. changes have to happen , and yes some spoil it for everyone.

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I think DG put it quite well.

I am of the opinion that ebay will be under a huge amout of scrutiny for their actions over the next few years, if not allready. There WILL be massive class actions against them. I concider what they do totally wrong, against the law, and unethical. I am surprised that the Anonymous hacker group hasn't shut them down. Bigger fish to fry I guess.

[digital*ghost]

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@joethenuts wrote:

to digi you have some great points , what ever changes that had to be done is not going to please everyone , but i asume the magority of sales are fixed postage items  ala letters and sachels , so its easy to alow extra postage ,sure weighted items are a bit more harder, buts its hard for a balance,   as i have been asking what was ebays options , very simple question 

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We can agree on that 😄 (That it's nigh on impossible for a site like eBay to cater for everyone, I mean), but even with flat rate postage options, a seller choosing to offer express, or other add-ons (like registered, signature on delivery etc), or international postage makes P&H a variable cost, where the FVF is unknown until a buyer purchases and selects a specific postage option, hence why I resent the fact that in Australia, the FVF is on the full postage amount, whereas in the US, it's only on the first domestic option offered no matter what service the buyer goes on to select, or where the buyer is located.

If you consider that, and also consider that the FVF is supposedly to counter postage piracy, then US sellers (or anyone listing on the US site) can theoretically be pirates all they want on all P&H charges after the first domestic cost, if they were that way inclined. The reality is that a FVF on P&H doesn't actually do anything to stop it, it just means there's no immediate financial incentive for the seller to load P&H with a portion of what should be item price, and the result is eBay profits more. 

eBay could have chosen to be pro-active in the way they enforce their own postage policies, I know that goes into a greyer area, because eBay can't exactly dictate a seller's postage costs, and there would be just as much uproar if sellers were asked to justify said costs, (which - I know - in turn means determining and enacting consequences for postage piracy in a fair way becomes more difficult, though I don't think it's impossible, particularly in those obvious cases of $1 items and $99 postage - acting on complaints in such cases would have been a good start, but they continued to let sellers get away with it and then used it as justification for a fee increase).

[joethenuts]

well i dont think so   how long has this policy been out and is it hidden from any one of 1,000,000 ebayers or there abouts , so they are not hiding anything like the v w car company. 

its just like the gov charging gst tax on another tax   ala petrol  cigs  wine  and so .   law is not simple thats why there are thousands of books out there . if it was that simple we would have no courts or judges. but thers the this applies if this and that are met.

[joethenuts]

to digi you are correct  ala $1 versus $99 postage  but that would be ovious , they would have to police millions of sales ,  but even back to my book could be sold at $10 with $20 postage  now that saves the seller half the fees  or $15 with $15 postage its still a 25 % savings to the buyer .too hard to police i mean you can still allow for packaging.

for instance the few courier items i send , because of packaging the lids of paint i can use up to a full roll  of tape for a few cans in a box thats $1.50, also i can send 20kg to perth suburbs for $11   if i charged $25 nobody would be the wiser if it came off my product and went to postage costs.

[collect247]

You say law is not simple,but what law in this country are ebay abiding by?

[aussie.grazing.boards]

@digi

No offence taken, and you've raised very relevant issues. I figured out long ago that if your selling products that don't fit through the Auspost 20mm gauge, you're going to be pushing it up hill to make a profit, especially when competing with the Chinese sellers, who pay pitence in postage, and are not subject to the 20mm rule once their products hit our shore.

I'm slowly phasing out some of my bulky items and sticking to smaller products that slip through the 20mm gauge, with only $1.40 or $2.10 postage.

I also find that you are competing with sellers who do not put a return address on the items they sell, and are knowingly under paying postage. How can you compete with that? You can't. Unless you have an ABN and are registered wit auspost, and print false price postage labels on your items, and hope like hell auspost doesn't pick up on it.

I've often bought bulky items from Aussie sellers, who put a $1.40 computer generated label on it. But is an item thicker than 20mm and is really a $7.15 satchel type item. (Does that make sense?).

But again, this all boils back down to competition. It is the common denominator in everything that has been brought up in this thread, IMHO