guidance on shipping for proof of shipping/delivery

[ahoy14]

Hi there, I am SO confused about what is best for sellers to give them protection against buyers' PayPal claims, either fraudulent ("item not received") or genuine.

It seems from what I've read that PayPal more likely pays out to the buyer.  Therefore sellers need to be very careful about postage options.

I've been selling occasional items for a few years now, and had always thought that prepaid satchels (both the red prepaid ones and the eBay click and send) with tracking were sufficient to provide proof of sending and delivery. Now I read this is not the case, PayPal pays next to no attention to tracking info (and I have to say I've found Aust Posts a bit hit-and-miss at times in terms of when/where your item is scanned, so now I ALWAYS lodge at the PO). 

So then there's proof of shipping.  I'd assumed that the lodgement receipt they give you after lodging at the PO was proof of shipping.  But I see now that it's not:  it has no postcode information, only the satchel number so USELESS info for PayPal claims against you because it could've been a satchel sent to anyone, it doesn't prove that you were sending it to your buyer.  Maybe with eBay click and send satchels you at least have the satchel number linked to the buyer via the digital file of the label, so does that comply for proof of shipping?  Who knows, I certainly can't find anything on eBay to confirm this.  With the regular satchels, maybe you're a dead duck because there is absolutely no way to link any buyer info with that satchel number.

Then proof of delivery?  Again I'd naively assumed that tracked satchels ALL need signing for.  But again this doesn't seem to be the case.  The regular red satchels it seems can be delivered with "Safe Drop" - (what the heck is that?  Is that where the buyer nominates, after recieving a card from the postie to advise there's a parcel waiting at the PO, for Aust Post to leave the parcel at their house next day?).  I've never seen that with Click and Send satchels, can that be something the buyer nominates too with Aust Post?  If so, if delivered with Safe Drop and the parcel is stolen, whose fault is that in the event of PayPal claim?

I've asked eBay for a definitive guide for sellers on this, as all the standard info on the Help site only refers to the more obvious stuff about postage options, costs etc.  At the very least there needs to be a good eBay guide to eBay's own "click and send" satchels. 

If anyone can shed any definitive light on this topic, or point me to where I can find it I'd be most appreciative.

Many thanks

[nevillesdaughter]

I've been using Signature on Delivery for the last 10 years and have only had 1 item not delivered in all that time. Aust Post were able to provide a copy of the signature they did get, and Paypal happily refunded the buyer's money.

Of course, it depends on the cost of the items you're selling whether it's going to be worth it. I give my buyers no choice in the matter, I list with so-called free postage but mention at the bottom of all listings that items will be sent SOD, and Express is available at an extra cost.

Marina.

[merfar2107]

If and when ebay do reply, could you please share it, as it will be interesting to see.

[clarry100]

Keep in mind that under the eBay MBG that proof of delivery is required.

ie at least a scan event on the tracking number showing it was delivered.

PayPal only require proof of postage.

ie you need to have lodged over the counter and gotten the scan event and receipt for that.

The tracking number has to be able to be linked to the buyer's postcode at least. Full PayPal address is preferrable.

If the tracking number does not achieve this then take a pic at the time of lodgement showing the address label and the tracking number on the parcel.

I've never been able to see if/how having signature On Delivery (SOD) can help as neither of the above require it unless the item value is over $750 (I think it is). And then you had better have insurance anyway.

SOD is only going to help you if Aust Post deliver it to the wrong address and the signature fails to match the recipient. Then you may have a claim for the loss against AP. So the tracking would still show delivered but the signature would not match. Good luck with getting compensation for your goods without insurance. May have to get the postal ombudsman involved here.

When we send parcels we use Click and Send as the address is digitally linked to the PayPal address via the tracking number. And then we lodge over the counter and get the scan event. But we never use SOD.

[nevillesdaughter]

I also follow all of the protocols you mention when posting. The one claim I had for not received was a couple of years ago - before eBay really ramped up the dispute process.

The point I'm really trying to make is that when a parcel is sent SOD (and the buyer knows), it seems to weed out the scammers.

Marina.

[clarry100]

I think that if the item appears to have tracking that is scanned on delivery is in itself enough to put off would be scammers. I don't think the added cost of SOD is really going to put off too many more.
The vast majority of our items go out by large letter and we get around 1 in 1,000 reported lost. It used to be about 1 in 100 until we adopted a new approach to the way we mail out.
We are now quite convinced the remaining ones are genuine.

[ahoy14]

Thanks, yes proof of lodgement is important but the PO receipt is useless. I have done as you suggested and taken a photo in the past of the addressed satchel (if it's a prepaid red one, not click and send) . BUT I've read that in a dispute PayPal won't accept photos as they are too easily doctored. 

So I'm now only going to use click and send satchels as at least you have the link b/n the satchel number and the buyer. 

do you know though if click and send satchels require signature on delivery? 

I'm pretty sure the red prepaid ones don't as when I've used them the tracking sometimes shows delivered with Safe Drop. I've never seen that with the click and send ones.

thanks again

[ahoy14]

Hah, no luck yet, just some waffle that didn't address my question! Take 2 coming up....

[ahoy14]

That's a good improvement , can I ask what you changed? I've had a regular large letter not arrive yet I posted it over the counter and it was going to a PO box in Tasmania. Aust Post tell me that shouldn't happen but it did. It was genuine too as going to my young nephew, a birthday gift. His mother tells me they occasionally get others mail in their PO box so incompetence seems to be a factor.

[ahoy14]

Thanks Marina. I had assumed that click and send satchels required a signature but haven't been able to clarify this. I will now consider SOD on expensive items.