paypal buyer protection

[dylan11235813]

Yes another thread about paypals fantastic buyer protection. This has probably been said before but i don't care.

Example : Buyer purchases item from ebay and pays by paypal. The seller ships using 'click and send' which comes with a nice tracking number (no requirement for signature on delivery is selected).

The item then goes missing, a claim is lodged by the buyer with paypal and they loose because the seller can prove shipping as required for paypal.

The seller then gets negged and bad feedback on ebay and looses top seller rating and the buyer ends up with no item and no money.

Isn't paypals buyer protection just great.

[jensmanchester-australia]

I have always maintained that the best protection a buyer or seller can have is the honesty and integrity of their trading partner.

Honest buyers and sellers don't need the protection of paypal.

Dishonest buyers and sellers often know the loopholes in the system and use those to their advantage.

[dylan11235813]

I have always maintained that the best protection a buyer or seller can have is the honesty and integrity of their trading partner.

Honest buyers and sellers don't need the protection of paypal.

Dishonest buyers and sellers often know the loopholes in the system and use those to their advantage.

I dont think anyone was mentioning loopholes as I understand the meaning. I know how to defraud the system but that does not make me dishonest. In fact even though it may sound like I do not refund for missing items I do, but I don't think I should be forced to and I dont think buyers should expect it and then leave bad feedback when something goes missing.

[dylan11235813]

Also to jensmanchester , I don't mean any offence but with 40000+ feedback I doubt I would care at all about a couple of missing items and if you don't know the 'loopholes' something is wrong.

[digital*ghost]

I think that paypal make it seem like they are insuring a purchase when clearly they do not offer insurance.

I just sold some items totaling about $30 and the buyer reqested an invoice. I thought OK one item was free post so I will include the others with no aditional cost, the others had $1.95 for post combined.

Usually I would give all for free post as it really doesn;t cost any more, but I wanted to see what the the buyer would choose. So I sent an invoice for regular post at $1.95 and to register $2.95 what did the buyer select?

I hope that makes sense.

Right (legally or morally, depending on your disposition) vs practicalities. A buyer is free to select an uninsured service for the items they buy when using PayPal because at the end of the day it means the seller is unlikely to be able to prove they posted it to PayPal's satisfaction. If it comes to a dispute, the process for the buyer is actually simpler and more convenient if the seller does not have proof of postage for PP, because when they have proof, they may then be reliant on the seller to do something about the loss. Depending on what kind of service was used, compensation may not even be payable and therefore if a discretionary refund is not forthcoming from PayPal, any refund would be at the sole discretion of the seller. 

In other words, it is more practical (not to mention generally cheaper), for a buyer not to insure the items they buy because PayPal effectively release them of any responsibility in that regard. 

[digital*ghost]

In other words, it is more practical (not to mention generally cheaper), for a buyer not to insure the items they buy because PayPal effectively release them of any responsibility in that regard. 

More appropriate is: it is more practical (not to mention generally cheaper), for a buyer not to insure the items they buy because PayPal make it more attractive not to. 

[dylan11235813]

More appropriate is: it is more practical (not to mention generally cheaper), for a buyer not to insure the items they buy because PayPal make it more attractive not to. 

Again I agree with you but lets say I go post the item by regular post and take a picture of the package as it is postmarked (to my understanding this will satisfy paypal), the buyer will end up with no refund if the item is lost in post. In the buyers eyes I am responsable (at least to most buyers) and paypal continually promote the fact that the buyer is protected somehow.

So instead of a buyer paying $1 extra to register for their protection they do not (it will actually cost about $5 to post registered). I will register it anyway but I dont think I should have to pay for it.

I send things as large letters, maybe I should start charging the full click and send rate.

[dylan11235813]

It might be time to point out that I have only ever had about 3 items go missing over 2 years totally less than $30 which is less than 0.002% of sent items if my math is correct

[davewil1964]

So you can afford to self-insure against the odd loss. That's what I do with large letters. Taking into account the reduced sale price and/or reduced sales (thus profits) if insisting on registered.

[digital*ghost]

The majority of my items go as letters as well, and I made a choice a long time ago to disregard all of the hoop-la surrounding who's legally responsible for what - I am interested in the legal side of things on a personal level, I would like a definitive answer that doesn't rely on interpretation of certain things one day, and outside of the PayPal and eBay box (if it's possible), but on a practical level I actually don't care; what I care about is my customers and that drives far more of my decisions than anything else. I agree with jensmanchester's sentiments, and no buyer of mine will ever need PayPal protection.

For most letter items under $40, I give buyers the choice of standard or registered, and most of the time they choose standard. Then I make a choice about whether I want to use registered anyway, and sometimes do if the combined value is over a certain amount, or the purchased item is something I would not be able to replace easily, if at all. And it's not really because I want seller protection and protect myself against loss, though it comes into it, it's more because I want to protect the item as much as possible. The losses assumed by refunds/replacements is negligible compared to everything else. 

[dylan11235813]

It might be time to point out that I have only ever had about 3 items go missing over 2 years totally less than $30 which is less than 0.002% of sent items if my math is correct

Definately with less than 5c added postage cost. But when something goes missing I dont look at it like that it is more a loss of the sale as a whole. It's still a loss and I don't like it even though I can add a little extra to the postage cost to cover it over time.

I purchased about $500 worth of stamps recently at 70% face value on ebay so I am saving more than that anyway. Should I pass on the savings? Is it ethical not too?

Also I addressed one item once incorrectly (not included in the 3) and it came back to me. I was so angry at the time (when I first started out) when the buyer emailed me but a resent the item no questions (no INR was opened and I have not had one yet ever).

I just think ebay and paypal are forcing my hand in refunding resending etc..