the roll out of ebay managed payments

[lm-entertainment]

i'm sure a lot or most of you probably received the managed payments email this morning. in case you didn't, or missed here - ebay is rolling out managed payments later in the year with pre-registration opening shortly.

more info is located at https://sellercentre.ebay.com.au/managed-payments

[lyndal1838]

Thanks for that information Digi.   I am scandalised that ebay can get away with forcing sellers to deal with any entity who -does not answer to any higher authority when dealing with seller's money.

I had already checked out paypal and knew they were registered and I checked out ebay last night and found they were not registered.

I did not check Adyen as I found it inconcevable that they could handle Australian funds without some form of licence be it a full banking licence or a deposit takers licence as paypal has.

I will certainly back anyone who wants to argue for accountability to Australian authorities....after all it will be my money being transferred to sellers.

[gec2002]

I think you find the Adyen is an "Acquirer" ie in simple terms a go between Merchant Card companies and the Retailers. In order to operate they have to be an Exchange Settlement Accounts (ESA) Holder (Non Bank) with and be Approved by the RBA (Reserve Bank of Australia) for the settlement of payment obligations between clients.

[danieh_6]

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@lyndal1838 wrote:

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Paypal can also withhold you money at ebay's behest so no difference that I can see there.

-Yes but paypal, will always pay out your money and also you can see which money is on hold, imo its a lot more clear, and also you can take them to afca if you have an issue.

And how do you know this will not apply when the new system is rolled out?  do you have information not available to other members?

The only information I have is from people who are already on it or from customer service, Basically all it says is "okay to ship" or something like that.

As far as I am aware thaat is what paypal tells the seller when the item has been paid for, even when they have the payment on a 21 day hold for new sellers.  Paypal only pays out the funds that are on hold once the seller can prove delivery.

Yes I agree, but what i mean is you can "see' your balance, I might not be right but, some sellers were saying they weren't able to see the payment, just rather than a confirmation. Also I have nothing against an escrow system cashflow is not a cocern for me its more the fact that there is no AFCA or way to see your funds

Do you mean the fee for a chargeback?  Paypal has that as well although at the moment it is only $15 as far as I am aware.

In my experience both physical and online trading I have NEVER been charged for a chargeback other than the payment itself, is there something I am missing?

Then you are lucky and obviously doing the right thing.  The seller only gets charged by paypal when they do not issue a refund.

As it was explained to me, the "loser" pays the fee.
Wow okay something I never knew, sorry to hear if you got done, and yes I have lost a few disputes including non PayPal ones and I have never been charged.

I have never been done by paypal as I am not a seller and I have won the 3 chargebacks I have done in 15 years.  To be honest, I think paypal gets a very bad rap.  I was using it long before ebay bought it and am still using it for sending money to family members.   The only major problem I had was fixed within an hour just by being calm and ringing paypal and asking what to do.

I don't want to go into details, personally, yes paypal is good an convenient but its also hopeless, the exchange rates are **bleep**, the customer service was **bleep**, and I once won an AFCA dispute and they banned my account for 3 months. It's good because its organized and useful. But like recently the added a change where you didnt get ANY fees refund if you had to refund a buyer even if it was change of mind

I doubt that ebay will have to register as a financial institution in Australia.  If they do they are leaving it a bit late as they are not yet registered and they are rolling out the new payments system imminently.

I was told by customer service they are one already for 3 years, but I personally think they will need to as australia has tight regulations on this. There is companies such as stripe & square, that are exclusively payment processors that are registered as one and via AFCA

I doubt that ebay has been registered with APRA for 3 years with a deposit takers licence without it being publically listed....and as of last night ebay is NOT listed.

As said I was told by customer service, they said to email the email for the ACN number, I haven't done yet, After digging through asic I did find some other companies that could be it.

Having an ABN has nothing whatsoever to do with holding a banking licence....ebay's ABN details are readily available online.....most members have checked them out over the years.

Ebay will be using Adyen as a payment processor so it is them who need to be registered for a licence, not ebay.

Correct, But all im saying is the entities could be related thats all, "eBay fiance, and Ebay Ecommerce"

Paypal is registered as a deposit taking entity which covers ebay dealings and I have no doubt the new Adyen

platform is similarly registered and will cover ebay as well.

Sorry i dont get this last one?

Ebay will be using the Adyen payments platform in place of paypal and I would exxpect that Adyen will at the very least provide the same services as paypal has in the past.

Ebay is not going to go to all the whoha of registering as a banking institution whe someone else will do it all for them....and make the sellers pay for it.

As said I was told by customer service whether they are blowing wind I am not sure, Do you know how shopify works by chance? But I get what you mean

I know nothing at all about shopify, sorry.

By the way APRA and ASIC are completely different entities and being registered with one does not mean that the  registrations are interchangeable.

Reason why I asked about shopify was I dont know how you get paid. Okay understand

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[danieh_6]

Paypal can also withhold you money at ebay's behest so no difference that I can see there.

-Yes but paypal, will always pay out your money and also you can see which money is on hold, imo its a lot more clear, and also you can take them to afca if you have an issue.

And how do you know this will not apply when the new system is rolled out?  do you have information not available to other members?

The only information I have is from people who are already on it or from customer service, Basically all it says is "okay to ship" or something like that.

As far as I am aware thaat is what paypal tells the seller when the item has been paid for, even when they have the payment on a 21 day hold for new sellers.  Paypal only pays out the funds that are on hold once the seller can prove delivery.

Yes I agree, but what i mean is you can "see' your balance, I might not be right but, some sellers were saying they weren't able to see the payment, just rather than a confirmation. Also I have nothing against an escrow system cashflow is not a cocern for me its more the fact that there is no AFCA or way to see your funds

Do you mean the fee for a chargeback?  Paypal has that as well although at the moment it is only $15 as far as I am aware.

In my experience both physical and online trading I have NEVER been charged for a chargeback other than the payment itself, is there something I am missing?

Then you are lucky and obviously doing the right thing.  The seller only gets charged by paypal when they do not issue a refund.

As it was explained to me, the "loser" pays the fee.
Wow okay something I never knew, sorry to hear if you got done, and yes I have lost a few disputes including non PayPal ones and I have never been charged.

I have never been done by paypal as I am not a seller and I have won the 3 chargebacks I have done in 15 years.  To be honest, I think paypal gets a very bad rap.  I was using it long before ebay bought it and am still using it for sending money to family members.   The only major problem I had was fixed within an hour just by being calm and ringing paypal and asking what to do.

I don't want to go into details, personally, yes paypal is good an convenient but its also hopeless, the exchange rates are **bleep**, the customer service was **bleep**, and I once won an AFCA dispute and they banned my account for 3 months. It's good because its organized and useful. But like recently the added a change where you didnt get ANY fees refund if you had to refund a buyer even if it was change of mind

I doubt that ebay will have to register as a financial institution in Australia.  If they do they are leaving it a bit late as they are not yet registered and they are rolling out the new payments system imminently.

I was told by customer service they are one already for 3 years, but I personally think they will need to as australia has tight regulations on this. There is companies such as stripe & square, that are exclusively payment processors that are registered as one and via AFCA

I doubt that ebay has been registered with APRA for 3 years with a deposit takers licence without it being publically listed....and as of last night ebay is NOT listed.

As said I was told by customer service, they said to email the email for the ACN number, I haven't done yet, After digging through asic I did find some other companies that could be it.

Having an ABN has nothing whatsoever to do with holding a banking licence....ebay's ABN details are readily available online.....most members have checked them out over the years.

Ebay will be using Adyen as a payment processor so it is them who need to be registered for a licence, not ebay.

Correct, But all im saying is the entities could be related thats all, "eBay fiance, and Ebay Ecommerce"

Paypal is registered as a deposit taking entity which covers ebay dealings and I have no doubt the new Adyen

platform is similarly registered and will cover ebay as well.

Sorry i dont get this last one?

Ebay will be using the Adyen payments platform in place of paypal and I would exxpect that Adyen will at the very least provide the same services as paypal has in the past.

Ebay is not going to go to all the whoha of registering as a banking institution whe someone else will do it all for them....and make the sellers pay for it.

As said I was told by customer service whether they are blowing wind I am not sure, Do you know how shopify works by chance? But I get what you mean

I know nothing at all about shopify, sorry.

By the way APRA and ASIC are completely different entities and being registered with one does not mean that the  registrations are interchangeable.

Reason why I asked about shopify was I dont know how you get paid. Okay understand

[danieh_6]

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@digital*ghost wrote:

As far as I know, neither eBay nor Adyen are answerable to AFCA - this has been my primary concern with the new managed payments system since it was a twinkle in eBay's eye.

They are not the same as PayPal - PayPal offer financial services like their working capital loans, allow you to accrue a balance, spend, withdraw, convert currency etc. eBay and Adyen will not be providing any of these kinds of services, so their classification is different (PayPal are classified as a financial institution).

You can search AFCA's database for financial firms that are members of AFCA - PayPal appears, the other two don't, but I'll shoot off an email to them to see if they can confirm, or offer clarification of options for complaints. 

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Fair enough mate, but what about Skrill, Polipay, western union, Square. - Besides western union these are all paypment processors. They are all also registered with AFCA. Also whats to say ebay doesnt allow you to convert currency, what about chinese sellers?

[danieh_6]

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@lyndal1838 wrote:

Thanks for that information Digi.   I am scandalised that ebay can get away with forcing sellers to deal with any entity who -does not answer to any higher authority when dealing with seller's money.

Thank you for quoting that, that has been my main concern,

I had already checked out paypal and knew they were registered and I checked out ebay last night and found they were not registered.

I did not check Adyen as I found it inconcevable that they could handle Australian funds without some form of licence be it a full banking licence or a deposit takers licence as paypal has.

I will certainly back anyone who wants to argue for accountability to Australian authorities....after all it will be my money being transferred to sellers.

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[digital*ghost]

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@danieh_6 wrote:

Fair enough mate, but what about Skrill, Polipay, western union, Square. - Besides western union these are all paypment processors. They are all also registered with AFCA. Also whats to say ebay doesnt allow you to convert currency, what about chinese sellers?

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I was providing multiple examples that (together) differentiate PayPal from the system that will be Adyen and eBay combined. 

On eBay you can list on other sites which means buyers will pay in a currency other than the one that will be paid into your bank account, so conversions will be taking place, but not in the same way they can be done within PayPal. I can hold a balance in my PayPal account in USD, GBP, EUR, and so on, if I choose to. I can convert some of my AUD balance into USD for a lower exchange rate, and then use that USD balance to pay a US supplier. I can keep my money in that account forerver, if I was so inclined - the same will not be possible with eBay. They have to disburse it to a bank account - they will have the power to withhold it from a seller on their own terms, but the account itself will not function like any kind of cash account as PayPal does - this is why PayPal gets classified as a financial institution and eBay / Adyen won't. (PayPal's classification as such is also why their fees don't attract GST, but eBay's will, just as an aside).

Like I said, I'm not 100% certain whether eBay will be answerable to AFCA, so I am trying to confirm that with them, but I also know Et*y use Adyen for their payment system (which is almost identical to the one being introduced by eBay) and I can't raise a complaint against Adyen or Et*y with AFCA (some key differences, however, is that Adyen is registered in The Netherlands, Et*y in Ireland, so it doesn't involve any businesses operating with Australian registrations / licenses).

Come to think of it, since we now have Ama*on in Aus and they have a managed payments system - does anyone know if complaints against them be raised with AFCA? They didn't come up in a search on the website, but that's not conclusive. 

[wholesale-fishing-supplies]

Link a bank account

Funds from items sold will be deposited in this bank account.

You also authorise us to debit your bank account for any amounts you may owe eBay entities, such as reimbursing eBay for buyer refunds and other charges.

I see no need for authorising Ebay to take money from our bank account. Shouldn't fees or other charges just be netted off from sales before being credited to the sellers bank account?

[davewil1964]

Buyer refunds for INR and SNAD would occur long after eBay gave you the funds.

[waddingtonfirstaid]

An absolutely terrible time to be changing anything at the moment. This could be the real trigger that causes a lot of eBay stores to close down completely. Only this week we tried to get a bulk buy offer from a seller, several hundreds of dollars worth, and it was nigh impossible with all the restrictions, some of them new and out of the blue.

I actually think eBay is driving business away, not attracting it, when it should be opening things up more and being more competative in all ways possible. For example, I couldn't even get a seller to adjust a cart price because the option was no longer available, neither could I pay direct to their banking account. Only option for the sale to proceed was the seller promising to refund via Paypal.

If it's going to mean saving more than 5 to 10% on simply paying for product, no one will be going through eBay in the long term future. Buyers are smart and ebay is making them even more cunning. Sellers aren't idiots either. Get yourself a good website people. An open-source one like ours is free, apart from the small hosting cost, even cheaper than eBay's monthly shop rent. If these new changes make it more expensive, we probably won't bother with an eBay store in future. Sales have already plummeted to the point whereby store cost is now front and centre. When a place like eBay makes it more difficult and/or more expensive to do business, especially when businesses are already suffering, blind Freddy whispers in my ear and I hear commonsense - nothing like what I'm hearing from eBay.

[digital*ghost]

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@digital*ghost wrote:

If your registered address is in Australia, when a buyer purchases your item in a currency other than your payout currency, eBay will convert the value to your payout currency using a transaction exchange rate we set for the relevant currency exchange.

I am presuming this is actually in relation to sellers in AU who list on international sites, making their listings in other currencies. That is, if i list in AUD, an international buyer pays AUD to purchase, not for example USD, and the currency conversion (plus fees) should happen on their end. But if I list on eBay US and buyers are paying USD when they buy, it then has to be converted by eBay into AUD in order to pay out the funds to my account (this is exactly what happens on Et*y). But, their wording is ambiguous, as per usual, and again, it's eBay, so nothing being taken for granted. o_O

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Someone pointed out recently that in the info for managed payments, its states that sellers who are enrolled in managed payments are not currently able to list on international sites, so my previous interpretation of that clause has to be incorrect, and the currency exchange fee will apply if an international buyer purchases an item listed on the AU site (unlike with PayPal, where the buyer pays the currency conversion fee if they pay for an item listed in AUD with another currency), so an added expense for those that get a lot of international sales, and a potentially large restriction for those that currently list on international sites.