Fraud - Obtain Benefit By Deception

[diverdan05]

Fraud offences do vary from State to State, however all revolve around a deception.
I recently purchased an item off a seller after asking specific questions not listed in their description. When it arrived I found the seller had lied about the quality of the item.  I had taken photos of the item and sent these to the seller, who offered a partial refund. When I declined this the seller stated I would have to pay for postage. I outlined what had taken place to the seller and they agreed to send me a postage label. Once the seller received the returned item they refunded my payment. A few days later I noticed the seller had relisted the item, changed the quality but listed that the item has been tested and works perfectly. I then sent further photos to the seller that proved the item is defective. The seller stated they tested this and all similar items they are selling and it worked fine. I then asked the seller what feedback I should leave and was advised that based on everything they had done for me, it should be positive. I left negative feedback also outlining the condition of this item. Within 24 hours this feedback was removed. I then reported this seller to eBay, who advised they would take action. That was a week ago and the item is still being listed. You have to wonder why no action has been taken.

[gutterpunkz05]

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@diverdan05 wrote:

The point of my post is not about feedback. However, in saying this I don't believe a seller's negative feedback should drop off the system after twelve months.

In our adversarial system the judge/magistrate does not get to see the charged person's criminal history until sentencing. I was recently advised by eBay that they can see all communication between buyers and sellers, including the negative ones that drop off the system. Is eBay therefore putting itself up as judge and jury?  

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Hi again.    another volley if you like, or simply a reply, take it anyway you like.

Your   OP is definitely  about FB and the removal thereof.

As for the  link, missing the point, No, it is just an irrelevant distraction.

Adversarial  system -  I presume you are referring to our legal system, which I am well aware of.  Note their is

no requirement for the everyday management or operating procedures of ebay, to operate according to the key features of the westminster legal system.

Your OP  relates to a recent purchase, however your past  FB history shows shows a remarkably similar incident.   It also shows  numerous FB policy breaches, and at least one claim  of inappropriate messages

against you.

As others have stated  FB does not simply disappear after 12 months.

So I now triple down on my original reply.

[diverdan05]

Seriously!!! You troll through my feedback and then make wild accusations about numerous FB policy breaches, one claim and inappropriate messages. As you have questioned MY integrity I have the right of rebuttal.

One negative feedback in 15 years when a buyer received an item and then stated it did not work. So I sent images of the item working that were taken the day before. In my listing I stated postage would be calculated on where the buyer lived. eBay left an unpaid item strike against this buyer, so she left negative feedback, only about postage.

As for inappropriate messages. I purchased an item for my son from a seller who claimed it included manufacturers warranty. When it failed weeks later I contacted the seller who referred me to manufacturer. They advised items purchased off eBay do not include their warranty.  I left negative feedback and the seller responded. This was another clear case of fraud by a seller. Make false statement.

The other inappropriate message you have referred to related to a game I purchased for my son that did not work, so I left negative feedback. The seller then contacted me and offered a refund if I removed the negative feedback.

Luckily we don't have people like you in our legal system, due to  unsubstantiated allegations.

As for the Westminster system, I believe this relates to our system of government. You were close though, as our legal system is based on English common law. Did you say you are well aware of our legal system?

[diverdan05]

Thanks for the reply.

As previously stated in my post, this relates to people committing fraud on eBay's "Venue".  However, as a sideline; 

It is the fact that negative feedback drops off the main screen that requires a buyer to scroll through sometimes pages of feedback. Particularly when some sellers have hundreds/thousands of negative feedback strikes.

In this recent purchase the feedback was removed by eBay. It is gone, as eBay removed it. 

Back to my original post. Why is eBay protecting sellers who commit fraud?

[diverdan05]

Just an update on this part of your reply;

Note their is

no requirement for the everyday management or operating procedures of ebay, to operate according to the key features of the westminster legal system.

eBay has a number of policies in place, including this one;
Counterfeit Item Policy
We don't allow counterfeit items, replicas or unauthorised copies to be listed on eBay.
Why Does eBay have this policy?

This policy prevents the sale of counterfeit items, which are illegal, and could expose sellers to legal risk. Removing them protects sellers and their buyers from buyer protection claims and financial loss.

Counterfeit items are illegal because they revolve around fraud offences and copyright legislation.  You do however have to wonder why eBay will only take action, once law enforcement agencies become involved? Is it because if they fail to do anything they could be charged with being an accessory both before and after the fact? 

Again, did you say you are well aware of our legal system?

[gewens]

Hello,everyone. To be respectful is very important in your interaction with other members here. I'd like to remind you that content that is harmful, hostile, threatening, abusive, baiting, vulgar, defamatory, harassing, or includes hate or racist speech, name calling, or profanity will be edited or removed.  Please read about our policy here: https://community.ebay.com.au/t5/Community-Feedback/Updates-coming-to-eBay-com-au-Discussion-Boards/... Thanks very much. 🙂

[springyzone]

I noticed you mentioned buying something where the warranty was useless.

This issue has come up a lot on the boards. So often, in fact, that I think ebay should seriously consider whether they allow sellers to even mention a warranty in their ads or private messages, unless they are an authorised seller.

The sad fact of the matter is the so called warranties are usually useless, especially if you are buying from overseas. And it could be months before a product breaks down and buyers discover that. By then, the ebay 30 day claim period is well past.

As to feedback & negs being visible, I understand where you are coming from but I think in a lot of ways, a % based on the last 12 months is fair enough. If the negative comments disappeared completely, I would not think that, but as things stand, a buyer can, if they wish, scroll through a few pages and double check past that 12 month period.

If a seller has a neg from eg 10 years ago, I am not sure I as a buyer am that interested in it. I am more concerned with their more recent record.

It's the same in reverse actually. I can remember a seller who had a sea of past positives and I had bought from her before, but then after I made a second purchase some months later, suddenly there was a deluge of negs and she either left or was booted off ebay. I lost my money and so  did a lot of others. (before paypal, it was). If those negs had started before I bought, I would never have bought, despite the earlier good record. It's the more recent record that really counts.

Plus I think some sellers occasionally get unfair negs or neutrals. After 12 months, they drop off the %. It's a bit like driving licences I guess. Your demerit points aren't held against you forever.

Even as it is, a lot of buyers never check feedback. I think one of the big problems is a lot of buyers look at the % of positive feedback and assume a score of eg 92% is really good. If they bothered to check the feedback, they would find that for big volume sellers, it is not.

[diverdan05]

So much for helping other people and also defending one's integrity when questioned. To quote Blazing Saddles, "Son, you're on your own". 

Goodbye and good luck everyone.

[gutterpunkz05]

Bye Dan,   Strange how Your FB history,  supports my original reply,  right down to the inappropriate messages.  (T&A)

Trolling your  FB.   No,  it is called back grounding,(Something you should be well aware of )  and your FB

is public information.  By your choice.

[imastawka]

Anyway, it's amazing how many people call it trolling through FB

The word is trawling through FB - an entirely different thing IMO