Help/advice pls - Aust Post contractor signed for my item & it's missing

[the3coopers]

We've lost a very expensive item that was delivered from the USA via USPS Express last week. Yet the AP tracking shows that it's been signed for!

Last Sunday we arrived back from an Easter Holiday, and it seems that the AP Contractor had come Tuesday 10th at about 7:38am -  there is a hangup on our home Answering Machine (my home phone number is on the vendor's invoice) at that time. The delivery status says delivered at 7:42am.

I phoned AP customer service and they say there's a scrawled signature with my first name on it. I am unable to get a copy, but I've asked the vendor to request it via USPS. I never sign my name that way, and anyway I can easily verify that I wasn't here on that day. The item should have been carded, not dropped.

Item was paid by Paypal, funded by a ANZ Visa Debit card. Theoretically I cannot claim INR since the item was delivered - and it'd be really unfair to chargeback on the vendor since they certainly did deliver something to us.

AP seemed to be saying "too bad", claim back via the vendor. Yet the only reason it's missing is because the AP employee seems to have either delivered to the wrong address or signed for it themselves and left it sitting on our front porch for nearly a week!

So, how on earth should I handle this? The item cost me almost $1000, so it's not a loss that I can "absorb". I'm wondering if anybody has had similar experiences, especially with making a claim against Australia Post for such a loss.

Thanks heaps for any advice you can give me. 🙂

[the3coopers]

The next step would be to contact USPS Express Mail International to determine what service was paid for, and like you, I would have though, considering the total cost involved, it was person to person receipted, (or the US equivalent)

I've already checked and it seems that "person to person" is not available for the service that was used. That said, the delivery still required my signature and that was certainly not obtained.

The vendor will advise me further in a couple of days once they get a formal response from USPS. I also have a "case number" through Australia Post, and they are now obliged to respond directly to me as well. The waiting game is killing me, but nevertheless the vendor has said that they will "look after me".

I actually don't doubt that I can win this (especially with Ombudsman intervention) but it's not something I really want to be spending time on right now. No choice, of course... I cannot let $800-odd dollars just "vanish".

[original-art-au]

I don't know whether this is still the case or not but aust post used to have a major hissy fit if your mail box was not the aust post aproved size and shape (they'd refuse to deliver your mail). soooo having a big mailbox might be a problem too.

[leader-of-the-band]

I actually don't doubt that I can win this (especially with Ombudsman intervention) but it's not something I really want to be spending time on right now. No choice, of course... I cannot let $800-odd dollars just "vanish".

Good luck Coops.  Your experience makes me glad that I have a PO box.  The cost of the PO Box is cheap for me because I do not have road-side delivery of mail in my Street.  I don't even have a mail box on my property!

Please keep us informed of the progress . . . . even if only as an avenue to vent!

[digital*ghost]

Might be a dumb question here...but would the seller qualify for Seller Protection here, if it came to it? (At least on paper, anyway).

[the3coopers]

Might be a dumb question here...but would the seller qualify for Seller Protection here, if it came to it? (At least on paper, anyway).

Yes the vendor would definitely qualify for seller protection both in the USA and here in AU. The item was online trackable the entire way and shows it was delivered. That is all Paypal needs to cover them.

So I phoned Paypal and asked them if I would qualify for Buyer Protection and they said NO... because the fact that it was delivered to my address is all they work on. And as far as Paypal is concerned there can only be one winner and one loser in any dispute. That's a bit of a worry 😮

[digital*ghost]

Yes the vendor would definitely qualify for seller protection both in the USA and here in AU. The item was online trackable the entire way and shows it was delivered. That is all Paypal needs to cover them.

So I phoned Paypal and asked them if I would qualify for Buyer Protection and they said NO... because the fact that it was delivered to my address is all they work on. And as far as Paypal is concerned there can only be one winner and one loser in any dispute. That's a bit of a worry 😮

I was more thinking if you had to pursue a chargeback - I'm not actually suggesting PayPal should foot the bill for the deliverer's actions, but I guess the question(s) I was most curious about were A) would a chargeback (on the grounds of INR) be successful, and B) if so, would the seller be covered so that neither party lost the funds? (I'm assuming part B is still yes, so the pertinent question is whether the chargeback would succeed, I suppose).

[funkyvillagepets]

You have to protect yourself here. You should launch a paypal dispute immediately. The seller isn't going to necessarily bother investigating if something isn't in it for them. Similar thing happened to me as a seller. I posted item for customer, tracking and signature on delivery. No safe drop. Lo and behold customer contacted me weeks later and they hadn't received it. I contact Aust Post and they insist it's been signed for. Tracking shows two deliveries (dodgy bros). I insisted on a copy of the signature and forwarded it to the customer. No way, she said. I tell Aust Post and they will do just anything to get out of being at fault I tell you! Well to cut a long story short they eventually launched an investigation and two months after the customer purchased the item it "appeared" at one of the sorting depos. No excuse for the forged signature!!! But get this - Aust Post refused to reimburse me (and we're not talking big money here), because I'd sent the poor and patient customer another one before they'd "completed" their investigation. Bah!

Delivery guys can be fantastic or just plain terrible. I can't tell you how often they've "attempted delivery" but actually haven't. They get paid regardless of whether we are delivered the parcel or not. Dropping it at the local PO is so much easier for them.

So...launch the paypal dispute and explain to the seller you know they've posted the item but you haven't received it and they need to investigate. While you're waiting you should go to your local Post Office as well as any nearby sorting facilities and have them do a search for anything addressed to you or to your address. Items are OFTEN "signed for" but later on discovered in sorting facilities and the like, so it's definately worth a shot.

Paypal buyer protection is there for us to use, so use it. Good luck I hope it turns up 🙂

[funkyvillagepets]

Oh and re the paypal seller protection - launching the dispute will buy you some time and the seller will ideally believe your claim and do the right thing by investigating. Good luck, your issue shows a blinding fault in the whole "buyer protection" and trackable item subject if dealing with inadequate postal services...

[tall_bearded]

Coopes wrote.  “Have already contacted Optus who claim they only log outgoing calls, not incoming. I told them this was for a legal matter, but they still claim it is not possible (I wonder if cops/courts could request it?). 

I know they can do it because I’ve accessed the service in the past.  But then the request was made not by an individual, but a legal services officer of a very large insurance company whose (the company’s that is) annual phone bill ran to 7 figures, and therefore not a customer you say no to.  In any event nothing lost.  If it goes to legal then AP will be required to provide you details re the courier including registered mobiles numbers.  It is then a simple matter for you to obtain a summons for the contractor's Telco to provide you with a printout of outgoing calls for the day in question.

“Coopes wrote.  “I've already checked and it seems that "person to person" is not available for the service that was used. That said, the delivery still required my signature and that was certainly not obtained.” 

I construe from the carriers response that a person to person service was available but not used.  I would recommend to anyone who sending significant valued items by post that if a person to person service is available then they insist the seller uses it. The small relative additional cost is well worth the peace of mind it provides.

Coopes wrote “Actually don't doubt that I can win this (especially with Ombudsman intervention) but it's not something I really want to be spending time on right now. No choice, of course... I cannot let $800-odd dollars just "vanish".

I understand, but at the end of the day, you’ll find it won’t be elevated to someone AP who can give you a non scripted response, that is someone who has the authority to look at the problem in light of its own facts and make a commercial decision on the facts, as distinct to a response founded on a prescribed flow chart, until you actually take the next step.  Again if you want to take that step give me a call and I’ll be more than happy to give you any assistance you need.

As for a chargeback, it may work, but if it does you will be disadvantaging the seller and at the same time letting those who caused the problem off the hook.  Therefore I would suggest this is the option of last resort.  In any event you have a least 6 months before need to make a decision as to whether to use that option.

Finally as for PayPal Buyer Protection, you could give it a go but because of the following disclaimer in the Agreement it is unlikely to get you far  “1.6. If we determine a claim in your favour, we will re-imburse you the full purchase price of the item and original postage costs only. We will not reimburse you for the postage costs you incur to return an item subject to a Significantly Not As Described claim to the seller or another party we reasonably specify. If the seller presents evidence for an Item Not Received claim that they shipped the goods to your address, we may find in favour of the seller even if you did not receive the goods, which of course if the cause which PayPal seem tpo be relying on when you first contacted them.

[tall_bearded]

Oh and Coopes just a thought which may hurry things along.

The next time you call AP refer them to this discussion.  That is, point out to them that their past conduct has forced you to seek advice, and as such, that conduct is now in the in the public domain, with thus far in excess of 870 hits, the vast majority of which are by people who either buy and sell on line, and therefore use their product.