How to deal with a seller who does not send all the items in the order but marks them as sent

[imperatrixi]

Hey there community!

Recently I have had 4 sellers who I have bought multiple items from in an order, but they did not sent all of the items. They marked all items as sent. They used tracking and now this says all items have been delivered but the packages did not contain all of the items that should be there.

One seller had listed the weights of the items that should have been in the order, and the combined weight of those items, plus the packaging was far more than the actual registered weight on the Australia Post label which to me should be enough proof that the items were never sent.

In one recent delivery the seller left 5 items out of an order of 30 items without letting me know there was a problem.

It is stressful and tedious to go through the process of having to open multiple return requests on a single order, and especially so if the items are marked as sent as the "Item Not received" as the Ebay automatic return option is not available and you have to go through customer service to open a request.

At first I wanted to give the sellers the benefit of the doubt, but since one has clearly admitted that they knew they could not fulfil the order but didn't contact me about it before fraudulently marking that they sent it, and one seller has done it for both of the 2 orders I have made from them so far, I don't think that I can assume that the sellers are making honest mistakes. I think that some sellers may be trying to avoid selling at a lower auction price than they hoped for, or trying to avoid a defect for having to cancel an order, or just trying to get away with not sending out stock.

So far I have, after a lot of time and hassle, received refunds for most of the items that I paid for but did not receive because they weren't sent out.

A few days ago I decided after a lot of thought to give 2 of the sellers neutral feedback about the items they did not send and after I posted it one of them has been messaging me claiming that I have made them lose their job.

I have also had sellers complain that I opened a return case to organise a refund but I think that I have to do it else I am not protected if they fail to either refund my money or send me the product I ordered. I have already had an experience where a seller had promised to do a part refund because an item they sent me had defects but they never followed through until I opened a return case, so I am less trusting now.

I would really like to know if you have had these sorts of experiences and how you have handled it. Do you think that a seller that marks items as sent that they never sent deserves neutral or negative feedback? Do you try to resolve problems with a seller via "Other" topic in Ebay messages or do you go straight to a Return request?

If you are a high volume seller, and your prices are not high, is it reasonable for your buyers to expect that some items that they ordered may not arrive and they will need to file return requests and that it balances out because your items are less expensive than other sellers?

I'd love to hear about your thoughts and experiences!

[imperatrixi]

Thanks for your reply.

I was very freaked out by the backlash I've gotten about neutral feedback. I actually don't think that the feedback system is working as well as it could be because I have seen so many positive feedback comments that are actually expressions of dissatisfaction. I think people are very hesitant to give neutral or negative feedback even when it is deserved. I think Ebay may have had to create harsher penalties for receiving less than positive feedback just because people use give it so rarely despite some transactions that should be given it. I wonder if there are lists that sellers can subscribe to that blacklist anyone who has given out negative feedback. But then any sellers that would seek out a list like that probably aren't sellers that anyone should be trying to do business with.

So many sellers are writing requests in their description pleading for positive feedback and saying that neutral and negative feedback do not solve problems. But of course the purpose of feedback is to warn and educate other buyers about how reliable and trustworthy a seller is. Because without it a seller could get away with consistently bad behaviour to loads of buyers and just claim it was an honest mistake to every one of them. Accurate feedback shows how many people have actually had problems.

I think that 5 stars and postive feedback should be reserved for sellers that exceed basic expectations and put in extra effort. I have had a real range of experiences - some sellers label everything very well so it's easy to identify what the purchase is and where it has come from, they send it quickly and with fast delivery, they package it so it's unlikely to be damaged or broken in transit, and the item is exactly the same as the item in the photo and the description they put in the listing is detailed and completely accurate. But on the other hand I have sellers who have done all of those things in complete opposite.

I would like to think that in the end it does pay off to be a considerate, helpful and honest seller, and that regardless of what country you are in you conform to an Ebay culture of good practice both because it's the way everybody else does business and you hold those standards too, but also because the community and Ebay itself won't tolerate anything less.

About the multiple purchases orders - mostly it's not a bulk order of the same item, it's a bunch of unique items ordered from the same store over a period of time. I am not getting a postage discount, I have been combining purchases to try to help the seller (and the post office) so they can send them together instead of lots of small packages. But the problem is that when sellers have left out items, or have sent several items that are not as described (**bleep**ola) it's much harder to get Ebay assistance if there are problems with multiple items in the same order transaction. It's much easier to get a quick resolution on an individual payment transaction. So maybe I need to stop trying to help sellers out by combining purchases, but what I would prefer is that Ebay changed its system to accomodate multiple issues with multiple item transacitions.

[imperatrixi]

Great advice for life! *googles Bödvar Bjarki*

[digital*ghost]

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@imperatrixi wrote:

So many sellers are writing requests in their description pleading for positive feedback and saying that neutral and negative feedback do not solve problems. But of course the purpose of feedback is to warn and educate other buyers about how reliable and trustworthy a seller is. Because without it a seller could get away with consistently bad behaviour to loads of buyers and just claim it was an honest mistake to every one of them. Accurate feedback shows how many people have actually had problems.

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For whatever it's worth, I strongly dislike it when sellers place this kind of importance on feedback, as I feel like it contributes to the notion some buyers (not yourself, just speaking generally) have that feedback is a bargaining tool, and it also encourages sellers to act in accordance with that (i.e. sellers who make decisions based on fear of bad feedback, rather than what is best for the buyer, themselves, or both). Which ultimately is an extension of the problem I mentioned above (about acting to prevent consequences, rather than acting to provide a solution), and a culture that almost exclusively exists on sites like eBay. 

I have found that with Chinese sellers in particular, once you find a good one, it's a significant benefit to cultivate a relationship with them (not a friendship, more like a business partnership). If there is one thing that they do understand very well, it's that the economy of losing a one-time buyer can make sense in the moment (and they may act accordingly), but it doesn't if they are a good, long-term buyer. They won't think about one specific transaction if you have a history with them, they will think in terms of future transactions, and the reposnse / solutions they will provide will be much more in line with what you'd expect or appreciate (it is actually with the Chinese sellers I have created good, long-term relationships with that I get the inspiration for a lot of my own practices - they tell me ASAP if an item is not available, short of stock, or found to be of sub-standard quality, and go out of their way to provide a solution for it, at their own expense. Most of these sellers I no longer deal with on eBay, though, as they have their own sites and it's much easier for them to see our entire history, which is going on several years now. Not all transactions are problem free, but the solutions provided with the ones that's aren't, are simple and generally hassle-free). 

@countess, unfortunately that quote can't be attributed to me, it's from the wiki page I linked to (apologies, I should have put it in quotations). The point you made about engaging in solution-based communication is a big one, though - I often have to put my blinkers on (as a seller) and ignore a not insignificant portion of a message about a problem and just focus on the actual problem, but I will always be at my best if the buyer's initial approach doesn't presume me to be an incompetent seller and / or scammer from the outset.

[davewil1964]

Hanlon's Razor, allegedly. Though it seems to predate Hanlon by several decades, at least.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Robert_J._Hanlon

[digital*ghost]

Some of that info is also in the Wiki page I linked to (I linked to the page for Hanlon's Razor, rather than a page to Robert Hanlon).

Hanlon - whoever he was - was the one who intentionally used it as a philosophical razor (though it was in a joke book, it rings true regardless), so I presume that's why the name remains "Hanlon's", despite it being a quote attributed to various others. 

[davewil1964]

When I read it I was thinking Heinlein. I assume that is where I first read it.