on โ16-12-2018 01:16 AM
Hey there community!
Recently I have had 4 sellers who I have bought multiple items from in an order, but they did not sent all of the items. They marked all items as sent. They used tracking and now this says all items have been delivered but the packages did not contain all of the items that should be there.
One seller had listed the weights of the items that should have been in the order, and the combined weight of those items, plus the packaging was far more than the actual registered weight on the Australia Post label which to me should be enough proof that the items were never sent.
In one recent delivery the seller left 5 items out of an order of 30 items without letting me know there was a problem.
It is stressful and tedious to go through the process of having to open multiple return requests on a single order, and especially so if the items are marked as sent as the "Item Not received" as the Ebay automatic return option is not available and you have to go through customer service to open a request.
At first I wanted to give the sellers the benefit of the doubt, but since one has clearly admitted that they knew they could not fulfil the order but didn't contact me about it before fraudulently marking that they sent it, and one seller has done it for both of the 2 orders I have made from them so far, I don't think that I can assume that the sellers are making honest mistakes. I think that some sellers may be trying to avoid selling at a lower auction price than they hoped for, or trying to avoid a defect for having to cancel an order, or just trying to get away with not sending out stock.
So far I have, after a lot of time and hassle, received refunds for most of the items that I paid for but did not receive because they weren't sent out.
A few days ago I decided after a lot of thought to give 2 of the sellers neutral feedback about the items they did not send and after I posted it one of them has been messaging me claiming that I have made them lose their job.
I have also had sellers complain that I opened a return case to organise a refund but I think that I have to do it else I am not protected if they fail to either refund my money or send me the product I ordered. I have already had an experience where a seller had promised to do a part refund because an item they sent me had defects but they never followed through until I opened a return case, so I am less trusting now.
I would really like to know if you have had these sorts of experiences and how you have handled it. Do you think that a seller that marks items as sent that they never sent deserves neutral or negative feedback? Do you try to resolve problems with a seller via "Other" topic in Ebay messages or do you go straight to a Return request?
If you are a high volume seller, and your prices are not high, is it reasonable for your buyers to expect that some items that they ordered may not arrive and they will need to file return requests and that it balances out because your items are less expensive than other sellers?
I'd love to hear about your thoughts and experiences!
on โ16-12-2018 01:32 AM
@imperatrixi,
I always try to give a seller the opportunity to fix a problem before opening a claim/dispute. Mind you, I can count on one hand (literally) the number of problems I've had with buying on eBay...
I suppose it doesn't really matter whether one gives a seller the benefit of the doubt, or whether one thinks it's deliberate. The simple issue is that you should receive what you have purchased, and that if there's a problem with the item/s (including if there are missing items), assuming that the items haven't been stolen en route or after delivery, it's up to the seller to fix the problem caused by their own behaviour.
I would communicate politely with the seller, and see what sort of remedy the seller can offer. In the case of multiple items, I suppose a partial refund would be in order, or the seller re-sending the items they failed to send. I would note down the latest date on which I could open a claim in eBay's MBG, and give the seller up to that time to resolve the issue. If no resolution by, say, a week before the claim has to be made, I'd communicate with the seller again to let them know I am opening a claim by such-and-such a date or such-and-such a time. That might prompt the seller to issue the relevant partial refund. If the seller's despatched the "missing items", I would reassure the seller that once the items turn up, I'll close the case. These timeframes should give the seller plenty of time.
I certainly don't think that giving a seller neutral feedback would result in the seller losing their job. That sounds risible. If a seller has said they will send missing items, but fail to send those missing items, that's behaviour that I would consider deserves a negative.
Were I you, I'd simply delete every message sent by the seller who has been melodramatically messaging you about their neutral feedback.
โ16-12-2018 02:03 AM - edited โ16-12-2018 02:07 AM
I can really only answer this from the perspective of a seller - what I do know is that ebay's system is set up to punish sellers who receive an order for an item they can't supply (and this can happen for a variety of reasons, sometimes it's 100% the seller's fault, sometimes it's not), but this in turn leads some sellers to act in a manner where protecting themselves from eBay becomes the priority over advising the buyer and risking an immediate defect.To exemplify what I mean, if a seller contacts a buyer and cancels a transaction because they are out of stock, they get a defect that can affect their ability to sell. It also gives a bad impression to the buyer about the seller. If they mark the item as shipped, then wait for the buyer to open an INR request, they'll issue a refund, the buyer feels good about the seller because they don't blame them for a lost package and got a refund, and eBay doesn't give the seller a defect.
It's a bit different with missing items, of course, but some might be thinking if they keep up the pretense of it being purely unintentional, it will avoid more problems.
I am not condoning these kinds of actions, by the way, I think if sellers make genuine mistakes it can handled in a way that does not cause more trouble and delay for the buyer, or put the seller at risk either.
If sellers are intentionally leaving items they can supply out of the package, though, for whatever reason, I think the request route is the best way to go. You can always send a quick message or inquiry, gauge their response, and if you're still wary or don't get a satisfactory reply, it's reasonable to then advise them you feel this is the best way to move forward. (BTW, items missing from an order come under 'Not as Described', not 'Not received' - not received disputes delivery only, not as described disputes contents).
I don't know if this will help at all in terms of how to approach sellers, but I frequently have multiple-item orders, and occasionally either make a mistake and an item is not included (unintentionally), or find that I can't supply what the buyer has ordered. (And no, I would never suggest it's normal or that it can be expected, at least not from a seller who is trying to do the right thing - I am always very embarassed when it does, and grateful to the few regular buyers who are very patient and understanding with me when it's happened more than once ).
In the first instance, if I have left out an item and the buyer actually wants the item, it is better for them to contact me directly via a message because then I can check my records, verify that it was left out, and send a replacement. If they open a request, the only option becomes a refund. I don't particularly like requests, but I accept they are a part of eBay and will not usually hold it against a buyer if they open one, particularly when the reasons are genuine. In some cases I have advised buyers to open requests as the simplest solution for us both.
If I discover that I can't supply an item (this usally happens because I've miscounted stock levels, or find a flaw that was previously undetected), then how I handle it depends on whether there are other items in the order. If it's just the one item, I contact and explain, and provide a few alternative options, including choosing a different item up to 20% more in value, or a refund. If there are mutliple items, I supply what I can of the item quantity (usually I am able to include a partial amount of what they ordered of the item I can't supply in full), but I will also issue a full refund and explain why (eg I selll things in packs, so say they ordered 50pcs and I only have 25, I'll send 25 and refund for the full 50).
I mention this because it's the kind of response I'd appreciate if I were the buyer in these kinds of circumstances, and in fact it's what I've experienced from other (non-eBay) sellers in similar circumstances, so I think it can provide a little insight into the way sellers respond when they have different priorities than their own interests.
You said you gave the neutrals a lot of thought, which I respect, and I think anyone who blames you for losing their job (if that even happened) over such neutrals is again not looking at the bigger picture, nor what actions caused you to be dissatisfied with the transactions in the first place. If there's a fly in a meal and the diner complains, you don't blame the diner for complaining, you blame the staff responsible for sending out a meal with a fly in it.
on โ16-12-2018 02:41 AM
on โ16-12-2018 03:37 AM
on โ16-12-2018 09:41 AM
Looking at your feeedback left for others, the bottom line is, if you buy Chinese,
then you will continue to have problems.
on โ16-12-2018 09:59 AM
I've been a seller, am mostly a buyer these days.
I know that mistakes can happen but by the sounds of it, some of your sellers are doing it deliberately, perhaps for some of the reasons digital ghost outlined.
I don't like it, for the simple reason that I suspect some of the sellers are hoping you won't notice or else hoping you won't go through with a claim because it is not as straight forward a process when we're talking about something labelled & tracked as sent.
This is a classic case where there isn't any evidence at all you can provide to absolutely prove things were missing (except in cases where you know exact weights and a package is well under).
If it happened to me, I would first of all contact the seller but I would be wanting a refund for those items not received. I would not be prepared to wait around for replacements unless you are talking of sales within Australia. In that case, if seller offered to replace, I would accept but politely make it clear there was a deadline and what that deadline was.
If it didn't arrive by then, I would open a case.
Any seller who messages you, trying to lay guilt on you over their own shortcomings doesn't deserve an ounce of sympathy. If they had said they were sorry and had been rushed but would fix the situation, that's fine. But to tell you they are losing their job etc because of you is rubbish. If they did indeed lose any job it would be because of multiple errors or theft.
It's not reasonable for any seller to expect that because items are not expensive, that you, the buyer, should be prepared to only get part of what you ordered.
If a seller fixed a problem immediately for me, polite messages, prompt refund or replacement, and I suspected it was just human error, I would give them a positive feedback.
If they sent me messages promising replacement but none arrived in the time, and they tried to delay me further, I'd give a neg.
As regards your purchases. Did you mean you buy one item but it consists of a pack of several of whatever you are buying? Or did you mean you buy several separate purchases at the same time with the one seller?
If the latter, I'd be buying each one separately, unless you're getting some sort of postage discount. That way each one would have to have a separate tracking number.
โ16-12-2018 01:11 PM - edited โ16-12-2018 01:13 PM
@imperatrixi wrote:
You sound like a great seller to do business with!
With your advice about which category to open a refund request, I'm not sure that it should be "item not as described" if the problem with a transaction is that an individual item purchased that has been marked sent and was tracked as delivered then is missing from the tracked parcel. To me that does seem like a case for "item not received". I guess that "delivered" is a description, is that your reasoning? Either way, if it is a tracked item and is recorded as delivered, Ebay removes the option for you to open a case for this reason "item not received" and you have to contact them for further assistance.
I guess I'm ok. I'm sure I've had some buyers who would not think so, but for the most part I just try to do what is right. Other sellers can be motivated to do what has the least (immediate) consequence to their business - as a buyer I would be quite angry about such practices, as a seller I still think it's wrong, but can understand the thought process behind it, and that it's not purposefully malicious in many cases, but certainly a solution that is much less than ideal for buyers. (This obviously doesn't apply to sellers who do inentionally leave items out of orders, or refuse to send an item if the price acheived wasn't high enough, but Hanlon's razor can still apply - Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. In some cases it will be a scamming seller, so you can certainly attribute that to malice, but other times you've just got an imperfect person who handles things imperfectly and which impacts others negatively).
With regards to the reason selected for disputes - I understand that when you don't receive something, an 'INR' dispute is the most intuitve reason to select as the reason for the dispute, but I said what I did in my previous post because that is not how eBay's (and PayPal's) system is set up.
Item not received disputes quite literally work only on establishing postage (in the case of PayPal) or delivery (in the case of eBay). It doesn't dispute the contents of a package in any way whatsoever, so in a regular case if the buyer selects INR for a package where the seller can establish postage / delivery by PayPal's / eBay's rules, the seller will win pretty much 100% of the time.
They have specific options under not as described for packages that are missing contents. You sometimes have to jump through a few extra hoops to establish that the package didn't contain all items, but the seller can't simply turn around with just the tracking number to prove delivery of the items in question (this is one of the reasons I photograph the contents of all packages I send out, it enables me to immediately verify or disprove claims of items missing, the latter of which I have to do regularly, as well, unfortunately).
on โ16-12-2018 02:00 PM
on โ16-12-2018 02:11 PM
โNever attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.โ โ digital*ghost
Exactly. It could be extended by adding "or mischance".
If we assume good faith on the part of others, it has several benefits:
๐ default state of mind is calmer than one who assumes malice, hence less likely to be swift to anger;
๐ stress level is lower;
๐ associated health benefits with lower stress levels;
๐ more likely to engage in a solution-based communication rather than choler-expressing communication;
๐ more likely to get a positive result;
๐ more likely to have friends;
๐ less likely to go Total Bรถdvar Bjarki;
๐ more likely to avoid family violence;
๐ more likely not to commit assault; and
๐ more likely to be greeted with a cheery smile rather than a brandished rolling pin.