Item is Photo Scam

[the_great_gatsby]

Hey, what does a guy have to do to get ebay to stop a photo item scammer? 

This scumbag has defrauded about 30 people, and ebay hasn't and for some reason won't ban them? 

All of their items has this at the end of the descriptions where people don't read

"You are purchasing the picture of the coin. If you are a human, do not purchase this item as it is set for bot accounts buying out all the cheap items listed."

https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?item=166850391161&rt=nc&_ssn=josly_6305&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1

[*casey*]

"As I mentioned too, I think ebay's tendency to describe some borderline dodgy sellers as "reputable" is misleading for buyers.  If I was new to ebay and I see a seller described as "one of eBay's most reputable sellers. Consistently delivers outstanding customer service", I would take that at face value as an endorsement"

I coudn't agree more and have posted the exact same thing on the boards on more than one occasion.

I've been following this case everywhere, not just on eBay.

The seller's  been posting  a picture with the words " buyer awareness" on the envelope.

Taunting them , " you should have read the description more carefully".

Because I've been following the case everywhere, the seller may get more than he bargained for, outside of eBay.

More negative feedback has been removed which reinforced the possible outcome.

[*casey*]

And for those who've been lucky enough to be refunded,  I think he's been bribing them to leave positive feedback .

A nice item, protectively packed.

A+ seller. Very highly rated.

My item has arrived thank you.

Seriously ?

I can't imagine anyone in their right minds would leave that voluntarily after being made a fool of

[twyngwyn]

...take a look at the 7 positives they've been given this month

[twyngwyn]

1 of the 7 f/b

Its my opinion this seller has the welfare of the ebay community at heart. In future I will only purchase items with photos showing the exact item for sale ! No more facsimiles etc. Thank you josly .... for your effort.

[springyzone]

---

@the_dutchess_of_dork wrote:

Of course, you're absolutely right.  Some members on these boards spend considerable time genuinely trying to help resolve problems.  But I read other threads too and some people just want to put the boot in.

In the circumstances discussed in this thread, I find it hard to believe ANYONE could blame the buyer.  It's not a case of buyers doing their due diligence.  A buyer sees a photo of coins, reads a description of coins but is supposed to realise they're buying a photo of a coin and not the coin itself.  It's such a completely absurd scenario, who would believe it?  If the seller really was doing what they claim to be doing, which I don't understand in the first place, why structure the listing with a detailed description then tack on a disclaimer at the end?

As I mentioned too, I think ebay's tendency to describe some borderline dodgy sellers as "reputable" is misleading for buyers.  If I was new to ebay and I see a seller described as "one of eBay's most reputable sellers. Consistently delivers outstanding customer service", I would take that at face value as an endorsement.  I have seen that phrase applied to high volume sellers who have literally hundreds of negatives.

The seller in this case is the embodiment of a seller who is not reputable and does not deliver outstanding customer service so how are buyers supposed to navigate these mixed messages?

---

Exactly.

We're in an interesting position, aren't we, when we start to blame victims and not the criminals.

Sure, some people may not be as cautious or careful as others, but the bottom line is-that doesn't mean it is right to rip them off. And it doesn't mean it is right for ebay to allow scam ads, not once it has been alerted to a problem.

Deciding who is in the wrong here is the crucial thing and you're correct, sometimes on this board there is downright victim blaming.

I find it hard to believe that anyone, especially any reputable ebay seller, could feel okay about such a seller being allowed to run ads like that on ebay (once it was brought to ebay's attention) or being allowed to continue trading on ebay, when the seller is obviously a scam artist.

As for anyone asking what the problem is-the problem is that the ad is an out and out scam attempt. It is in the wrong category, it is not selling what most people would reasonably expect it to be selling. Maybe we boaries would not fall for it because we have seen a few scams on  ebay so we are on the alert. But I would say that a lot of people might get confused by mention of photos. They assume they are photos of the actual coins they will get.

As for ebay endorsements, like Casey, I have been saying for a while that ebay standards are obviously at odds with some of the boardie claims, because time after time, we see people told-well, you obviously like buying from bad sellers with terrible feedback.

But 9 times out of 10, that 'terrible seller' will also be 'one of ebay's most reputable sellers'.

Of course that is an ebay endorsement, it can't be read as anything else.

[countessalmirena]

I’ve mentioned before that eBay’s algorithms for generating that “reputable seller” label is flawed. It doesn’t take into account things that a human who is experienced in buying on eBay would notice and be aware of and give weight to.

That’s the problem with a “reputation” label that is generated by a machine calculation. In this brave new Huxley world where AI seems to be taking the reins (or is given the reins, which is perhaps the more depressing way to look at it), humans are being trained to rely on what is bot-driven just as much as algorithms are being trained by input. We are able to see the discrepancy… but people without our experience on eBay, people without wary a critical judgement facility in life experience, and people who automatically accept the authority of a bot-driven label are going to rely on the endorsement by eBay of such sellers.

It’s a bigger and more worrying problem than I’ll address here. But it does come down to the issue of … we know it’s a misleading label. Many don’t.

It is problematic that too many buyers go no further than the misleading label or the green sea of the most obvious positives without checking for those fewer (but very telling) red shoals that warn “Danger!”

[springyzone]

AI is a problem and it is only going to get worse.

A big part of the problem, too, is many people are not into leaving feedback, not into reading feedback, they just want a quick, seamless buying experience.

It is actually not that easy to check things out properly on the phone. When you look up a certain type of item, you are shown a nice, colourful photo and a price. Not the seller, not the feedback rating.

Even when you click into an ad, the seller ID and feedback score is in tiny writing while title and price and Buy it now button dominate the screen.

Click on the seller ID and up comes their star ratings and  their last 2 feedbacks.

It takes yet another click to check out all feedback.

And another click again to filter it if you want to see the negs.

I am not saying a buyer should not bother, just that it is definitely a process and I am not sure every buyer is aware of how to do it.

The main problem though is that ebay needs to be absolutely draconian when it comes to weeding out sellers who try straight up scammy stuff, such as selling a photo of a coin with photos and at a price point that would lead many people to believe they were buying the actual coins.

I've read of some sellers who have faced lifetime bans for far less.

It is not good enough for ebay to just say-well, you can get your money back. They are very aware that many never do or don't know how to. They also need to police it from their end and when a seller crosses a line and destroys customer trust in ebay,  ensure that that seller is kicked off.

[the_dutchess_of_dork]

I don't even think it's necessarily a case of educating buyers to read and analyse feedback.  I think feedback doesn't - and probably can't - fulfil its purpose ... to guide buyers' decisions and promote safer transactions.

Firstly, there is an increasing tendency for buyers to rate the product rather than the seller.  Unless a seller is deceptive or selling unsafe or not fit-for-purpose items, it's really not the seller's fault.  A lot of buyers choose cheap generic products and expect them to be the same quality as the branded equivalents.  A related issue is that feedback is purely subjective.  As they say, one man's trash is another man's treasure.  I have seen the exact same item rated as fantastic by some and junk by others.

Secondly, feedback percentages are skewed against small sellers.  Someone who sells a couple of items a week and receives one or two negative feedback within the year will see their percentage fall.  A lot of boardies warn buyers not to buy from sellers with under 98% positive feedback.  A small seller may have a score below that because of inexperience etc which will probably come good once they become more familiar with the process.  Meanwhile a large volume seller can have hundreds of negative feedback suggesting a pattern of dissatisfaction but remain above the score. 

I agree a lot of the onus is on ebay.  They can't keep shrugging their shoulders stating "we're only a platform".  The government is beginning to take social media providers to task for the content on their platforms.  I'm not saying they could or should do the same with ebay but it's a sign people are getting fed up with the abrogation of responsibility.

I mentioned in a previous post about sellers with pirated Taylor Swift CDs.  IMO, that is inexcusable because they are not only ripping off buyers but also copyright holders.  OK, Taylor Swift is a billionaire but that still doesn't excuse copyright breaches.

Ebay seems to be mired in hypocrisy.  On one hand, they are always banging on about enhancing the buyer experience.  On the other hand, they turn a blind eye to high volume sellers doing the wrong thing because of the fees they generate.  Every shonky seller damages the ebay "brand" which affects every other seller.  In fact, sometimes reading feedback you see some buyers regard ebay as a single entity like Myers rather than individual sellers so if they are ripped off they may quit ebay altogether.

[springyzone]

Of course you are right. Feedback is a subjective experience and like you, I have seen the gamut from one star to five, all for the same product.

And yes, quite often ebay buyers rate on product rather than seller performance. Sometimes very unfairly.

Added to that there is the fact that quite a few people will never leave feedback unless they are particularly annoyed and angry and want to vent. So I think it can be skewed to the negative. You won't notice it as much on ebay but if you pop on a site such as product review and look up eg Australia Post, it can be savage.

To me, feedback can still serve a purpose and that is for buyers to note repeat comments. For instance, last night I was looking at some shoes, not cheap, and one person after another (all fans of the brand) kept saying the heel part was extremely stiff and uncomfortable and rubbed.  When one person says that, I take it with a grain of salt, but when 10 out of 15 say it, that's enough for me to think that design might have a problem and move on.

A lot of boardies here do advise not to buy from high volume sellers with under 99.5% feedback but ebay does not advise that and I don't think the majority of ebay customers have any idea that such an ideal even exists. The majority of customers would consider a score in eg the mid 90s as pretty good. Often what they will see if they even get as far as looking up all feedback is a sea of greens and maybe just the occasional red.

This is a personal opinion but I think really big volume sellers are probably more likely to get quite a few negs because a lot of those sellers are selling what I'd classify as cheap junky stuff. You're always going to get some customers who won't be happy with the quality & as you say, expect them to be the equivalent of branded products.

No site can completely guard against buyers against making stupid decisions then blaming the site or the sellers. We see it all the time. Buyers who buy then expect to have the seller cancel at a whim, or who buy the wrong product and blame the seller or who expect items to arrive in the week but never checked the estimated arrival dates etc

But ebay could do better to at least weed out the shonkiest sellers and the scam artists.

You are right, if someone feels ripped off, they could become wary of ebay as a whole. There are a lot of other sites they can go to instead these days.

[*casey*]

" In fact, sometimes reading feedback you see some buyers regard ebay as a single entity like Myers "

I think this will increase if newer, inexperienced  buyers also shop at places like Amazon and Temu.

Funnily enough, I just read an OP's feedback on another thread  which shows a positive comment:

"To Ebay I have received this article today"

Anyway, I hope  gotfalb-O comes backs and lets us know if he made a claim and/or got a refund