Item not received - no tracking number

[funnypooky]

Hi, I bought a DVD more than two weeks ago which I still haven't received. I paid 3,40 for australia post parcel, without signature. The seller says since I only paid for standard delivery, they can't provide a tracking number. According to the seller, the DVD was sent right after I paid on April 1st. I am new to Australia and I don't have any experience with parcel post - is it true that a standard parcel does not include a tracking option? According to the Australia post website, it does.

Also when would it be reasonlable to recover the money via pay pal? The seller states that Australia post has been "absolutely disgraceful" recently and that it can take up to 14 working days for parcels to be received. Well that wasn't mentioned in the listing, and I wouldn't have bought the DVD had I known.

[davewil1964]

Yes they can. yes they are.

If the parcel has a 'do not safe drop' sticker attached, they are supposed to take it back to the PO (which might not be the one closest to you), but that is not guaranteed.

Australia Post contractors, who deliver the vast bulk of parcels, are paid around $1 per delivery. they have an economic interest in spending the least amount of time possible in delivering individual items.

Work it out.

[green-gifts-mkd]

My feeling, in your case, is that the seller marked the item as 'Sent' prematurely. They used the excuse of 'disgusting Australia Post' to buy some time. It is a pity that your seller is not telling you the actual day when they posted your item. Sometimes, in the case of DVD's, the item may not even be in stock, and your seller has waited for new stock to arrive first. If this was the case, they should have informed you but not everyone does, as they don't want the sale cancelled.

A postie will also leave a large item in the top bit of your letterbox, rather than come to the door (they prefer not to get off their bike). Theft is a possibility but I wouldn't jump to that conclusion yet. In any case, you have PayPal protection if it doesn't arrive (it really should have by now unless the seller only dispatched it some time last week).

[knine-1]

If the postage details on the listing expressly says postage includes tracking then the seller is obliged to provide a tracking number. If it doesn't expressly say that tracking will be provided then the seller is not obliged to provide a tracking number. The seller is obliged to send by the postage method as advertised on the listing which the buyer purchased.

If the seller hasn't sent by a postage method that provides Proof of Postage, that is they cannot prove postage to your address to the satisfaction of the Paypal Seller Protection Policy, the buyer will be refunded if the item doesn't arrive from lodging a Paypal claim.

[knine-1]

If the item says "Standard Postage (Australia Post Parcel Post Parcel) " on the listing then I think that is how

the seller should have sent it. Parcel Post is the name of the service (as opposed to say Australia Post Express Post Parcel).

My understanding is that all Parcels include tracking now? I am guessing the seller has used the cheaper letter post

service (no tracking) in which case they perhaps should have specified Standard Postage without ANY mention of Parcel Post.

If it was me I might have sent the seller a screen shot of what it says on the listing and quizzed them on that. Regardless of what amount you paid.

Parcel post does include tracking as a standard feature, but to comply with the ebay sales contract unless the postage details expressly states tracking, the seller is not obliged to provide a tracking number to remain in compliance with the sales contract, that is the buyer didn't purchase a tracking number from the seller unless it says so.

[letscleanupmycupboards]

"You seem to have no idea as to what proof of postage means, vis a vis a Paypal dispute. Registered post hasn't been available for parcels for a while now, so are you saying you charge for something you don't provide? I'm sure your competitors are happy, as they can not charge for the same non-service and undercut you AND increase their profits.."

I call it registered but if you wish to split hairs "signature on delivery". Pretty much the same thing in my book, with the minor difference in cost of SOD.

Ever since I lost a PayPal dispute with a buyer a few years ago over that same issue, everything has been sent signed for. According to PayPal at the time, it is proof the item was delivered to the registered address that counts. Simply showing it was sent (which I had proof of) was not enough. Things may have changed however I have not had the same issue arise since sending everything signed for. With PayPal geared towards the buyer, there has to be something for the seller.

And if we are talking a 500g parcel, what postage proof is there? Receipts show them as a 500g parcel Australia wide, no postcode etc. so if I send 10 of them without signature, they all come up the same on the docket. No proof of shipping. How does that work in the event of a dispute?

[thecatspjs]

When I send non-click and send ordinary parcel post parcels I just complete an AP lodgement slip (downloadable on-line) complete addressee details and ask the PO to stamp the form as proof of lodgement.  

Proof of post lodgement AND proof of complete addressee details is the requirement for paypal.

If you had the required proof, and you did not win a case, then you have been dudded by paypal and you could have appealed the decision.

Proof of delivery within Australia is not a requirement of Paypal - it would breach Oz law if they tried to make it so.  

[letscleanupmycupboards]

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@thecatspjs wrote:

When I send non-click and send ordinary parcel post parcels I just complete an AP lodgement slip (downloadable on-line) complete addressee details and ask the PO to stamp the form as proof of lodgement.  

Proof of post lodgement AND proof of complete addressee details is the requirement for paypal.

If you had the required proof, and you did not win a case, then you have been dudded by paypal and you could have appealed the decision.

Proof of delivery within Australia is not a requirement of Paypal - it would breach Oz law if they tried to make it so.  

---

That was different to what I was told a few years back. I had proof of lodgement (postcode on receipt and item sent regular post before tracking, for what its worth, was added to all items) and they told me what was required was a delivery scan to show the article had been delivered. I did appeal and almost immediately (ie. no further investigation was done) the appeal was quashed.
Their claim was that I could have sent any article to any address in that same postcode, the onus of proof was on me to show I posted that particular article to that particular address.

Maybe they do things differently now but I was burned once and I say never again. Since then I have never had an article go missing. I also retain all postal receipts and lodgements for 3 years in the event of any chargebacks.

[letscleanupmycupboards]

By that reckoning, if someone from postcode xxxx, say 2000, buys and paypals, if I post an empty box to a random address in the same postcode and have my receipt (which is the only proof of lodgement with non signed for items) then that would be sufficient to win a paypal dispute? After all, I have proof of lodgement to Sydney 2000, sure I posted that to them, must have gone missing! There would be so much fraud if this was the case. Buyers have lost paypal disputes because they fail to return articles by signed for delivery too. The seller just has to claim it never showed up.

[chameleon54]

I send quite a few items as large letters, untracked. With satchels I upload tracking numbers when I address them, but thats about it. I register or "signiture on delivery" more expensive items ( over $60 - $70 ) and just keep the slips. ( not uploaded ) Same with reciepts and tracking numbers for parcels, I just keep them stored in case an item goes missing. I only lose a few each year and the time it would take to upload all of the tracking numbers when I get home from the post office isnt justified by the loss of a few items.  The same applies to adding the $3.00 tracking cost to all of my parcels. I cant justify it for the occasional item that goes missing. Its actually much cheaper to just refund the purchase price for lost items than pay for tracking on everything.  I have tried to strip my trading system down to the simplest most effiicient system possible, with the least number of steps. As a single person operation this allows me to turn over the maximum amount of stock and remain viable, rather than getting bogged down in time consuming processes.

[letscleanupmycupboards]

But I don't see why the seller should take that risk at all. After all the buyer wants the item, the buyer wants it posted, the buyer gets all the gains from paypal protection and yet the seller pays all the fees. Its only fair that the buyer pays a modest fee as part of the postage cost (whats $3 after all?) to protect their item. As a seller, if I sell a $50 item, why should it come to pass that I should assume all risk for that once posted? I will always offer options if people are really adamant about not paying for signature delivery, like paying by bank deposit.

I'm sorry but my trust in paypal is lacking these days.