Seller Cancels Auction Sale After Item is Paid for. / Bargains Depend entirely on Goodwill

ra157
Community Member

Last Friday I had the interesting experience of winning a Nikon 1 J3 mirrorless camera with two lenses at a very good price. I immediately paid for it with Paypal. 19 minutes after the end of the auction, the seller then cancelled the sale, citing the reason as,
I'm out of stock or the item is damaged".

Plainly she wasn't out of stock, and it strains credulity that she suddenly discovered the camera was found to be damaged within 19 minutes of my winning it. I reported the seller to Ebay.

Ebay's response included,

"I assure you that I have warned the seller and we will monitor their account to make sure that if they continue to cause bad-buyer experiences, we will take further actions which could lead to restrictions or even indefinite suspension."

As best I can see it – sellers can break their Ebay conditions and their contract with me with impunity.

Plainly, if this pattern is repeated by a frequent seller, Ebay will do something. But it appears that casual sellers never have to worry about getting what they perceive to be a dud price for their item. If they do, they can just cancel the sale and claim the item was damaged.

To make matters worse, the camera was listed as not having a charger, which I bought from another seller after winning the camera. Despite my requesting that he cancel the order, it is on its way to me, and I have paid $10.98 for a useless charger.

Anybody else had this type of  frustrating auction experience?
Regards,
Renato


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Re: Seller Cancels Auction Sale After Item is Paid for. / Bargains Depend entirely on Goodwill

Hi Maranock,
You state,
          "Tippy is very experienced. Many people have seperate accounts just for posting on the boards."

Thanks fo that. I wonder why the need for double layers of anonymity?

I'm genuinely curious, please.
Regards,
Renato
           

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@ra157 wrote:




Thanks fo that. I wonder why the need for double layers of anonymity?

I'm genuinely curious, please.
Regards,
Renato
           


That's easy to answer, it's to stop vindictive members damaging their selling account by giving unjustified negative feedback.

 

Believe it or not, some buyers are like that.

______________________________________________________

"Start me up I'll never stop......"
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Hi Chameleon54,
           Thanks for your insights. I have no doubt that one needs a lot of knowledge if one is trying to run a business on Ebay. I have a friend doing that with many thousands of sales, and she always tells me something new.

Though I'm really focusing on casual sellers - where I think the process is farly simple.

You say,
"To suggest a seller with a dozen feedbacks is experienced is frankly ludicrous."

Can you in all honesty suggest that a casual seller on Ebay - with a dozen feedbacks in six years of casual selling - does not know that it is either
a. wrong or
b. that there will be a strong perception of wrongness,
if 19 minutes after a sale she cancels the sale for "damage", which was remarkably unnoticed during the time pictures of the items were taken, and the entire time the items were listed and being bid upon?

In my opinion, a seller who has never sold a single item should know that, and selling experience is irrelevant to that issue. 
Regards,
Renato

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Re: Seller Cancels Auction Sale After Item is Paid for. / Bargains Depend entirely on Goodwill

Hi padi*0409,
          You state,
"That's easy to answer, it's to stop vindictive members damaging their selling account by giving unjustified negative feedback.

 

Believe it or not, some buyers are like that.."

Thanks for that. That is remarkable - with such numbers of people around, I guess it must happen. Infrequently I hope.
Regards,
Renato

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Re: Seller Cancels Auction Sale After Item is Paid for. / Bargains Depend entirely on Goodwill

Hi Brerrarbbit585,
           My apologies - I missed seeing your question to me last night.

You state,
   "Occasionally, you may need to cancel a transaction because the item is broken, you made a mistake in your listing, or the item is out of stock.

 

If you don't agree with this part of the user agreement, why are you still on ebay?"

The obvious answer is that I am still on Ebay because I fully agree with that part of the User Agreement.

Why would you think otherwise?

Some years ago I bought a cassette deck for $40. Next day the seller contacted me and said roughly as follows
"Sorry, I went to packet today, decided to give it a final check - and discovered all the rubber rollers inside had gone gooey. You would have  a fit if I sent you this. I'll cancel the sale and refund you the money"

I said thanks, and went and bought another cassette deck for $40.

Do you think that in this case, Ebay went and gave the seller a warning because they thought the item was broken?
Had the seller supplied Ebay with pictures of the damage, they should have given her a commendation.
Regards,
Renato

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Re: Seller Cancels Auction Sale After Item is Paid for. / Bargains Depend entirely on Goodwill

The ebay system itself allows sellers to cancel a sale. It doesn't encourage it as such & from what I have read, there are defects for cancelling in some circumstances eg out of stock.

 

But there has to be that facility to cancel a sale because sometimes things do go wrong and for ebay, an automated system as far as possible is what they are after.

 

Now you & I might suspect the seller cancelled because the sale didn't achieve the price the seller was hoping for. But we don't know it for a fact.

It seems to me what is bugging you is the fact you got a tick the box reason so quickly after the sale. But what if the seller had messaged the next day, with

 

Sorry, I went to packet today, decided to give it a final check - and discovered  xyz internally is not working. You would have  a fit if I sent you this. I can't sell it like this as it does not fit the ad description so have cancelled the sale and refunded you the money"

 

or

 

Sorry I went to wrap it tonight and accidentally dropped it. It looks fine externally but I can hear something rattling around inside so have cancelled the sale and refunded.

 

That would be a more cunning move by the seller but not necessarily any more truthful.

Again, you might suspect it is not true, but how could you or an ebay rep definitely prove it? You couldn't. Not every fault shows up in photos, especially not camera faults.

 

The fact a message came quickly after a sale isn't necessarily proof of anything either. That could be just when a casual seller might be expected to move or wrap an item.

 

So.. what should happen? What consequences should there be?

 

How do you know there is no warning sent by ebay? A couple of months back, I did not pay for a pick up item. I went to pick it up (it was a high chair) and it was not as described. Ad said it folded compactly. It did not fold at all.  Seller opened unpaid item claim. I rang ebay and explained and they removed that strike against my name automatically, but it came with a message that basically said-it has been removed as a courtesy but don't make a habit as this sort of thing can affect your account'.

I was a bit incensed at first actually but then calmed down and realised ebay couldn't know for sure what the facts were.

 

So maybe sellers who cancel do already get a warning. Someone else mentioned sellers who cancel & it is their fault get a defect & too many defects and the selling account is toast anyway. A defect is a consequence & one regular sellers try to avoid.

 

In a perfect world, everyone would obey every law & regulation. But they don't & they won't all have the same opinion about things either. This casual seller of yours, I suspect, made a miscalculation. Should be be banned? No. We can't prove he was lying.

Should he get a warning? Yes, after a cancellation a seller should get a warning &  restrictions if they repeat the mistakes.

 
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Re: Seller Cancels Auction Sale After Item is Paid for. / Bargains Depend entirely on Goodwill

I sell fragile breakables. I used to package the items up as soon as the buyer paid. That could be 9am, or it could be 11pm. Several times I got the boxes and stuff out, went to grab the item and dropped it, smashing it. It's not easy having to then send the buyer a message saying the item they just bought is now a pile of shards on the floor. 

 

Did I get reprimanded by eBay? No, because I knew which option to choose when cancelling so I didn't get a defect for it. Some buyers chose to leave feedback and dinged my stars. There was a time when dinged stars did give you a defect. I copped a few of those, but not enough whereby eBay was breathing down my neck. If a low feedback seller got that many defects, they'd be banned from selling forever.

 

Sometimes shyt happens. Stuff does get dropped and damaged/broken. Sellers don't like that because they now don't have the item to sell and they don't have the money either. It's probably about time to start to accept that. Not everything is going to go your way because you stamp your feet and have a hissy fit, or nit pick bits out of eBay policies. Has the seller relisted the item? No? Maybe, just maybe, it did actually get broken. It's coming up on 2 weeks since it ended. If it was cancelled due to lack of money, it would have been relisted by now.

 

You state,
   "Occasionally, you may need to cancel a transaction because the item is broken, you made a mistake in your listing, or the item is out of stock.

 

If you don't agree with this part of the user agreement, why are you still on ebay?"

The obvious answer is that I am still on Ebay because I fully agree with that part of the User Agreement.

Why would you think otherwise?

 

You clearly don't agree with that part of the user agreement, which is why this thread is now in excess of 200 messages. You can't accept that the item may well have been broken and the seller, following the user agreement, cancelled the transaction and refunded you.

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Re: Seller Cancels Auction Sale After Item is Paid for. / Bargains Depend entirely on Goodwill


@springyzone wrote:

 

 

Now you & I might suspect the seller cancelled because the sale didn't achieve the price the seller was hoping for. But we don't know it for a fact.

 

 

That's just it - we know nothing about why the seller cancelled, we only know that they did, and we can't reasonably accuse (or suspect) them of lying when they didn't actually say a word. 

 

eBay provides 3 different reasons to choose from when a seller cancels, sellers can not enter their own reasons:

 

The buyer requested it 

I'm out of stock or the item is damaged 

There's a problem with the address

 

Despite being in the user agreement "I can't confirm the buyer's identity", or "the buyer didn't meet my listed terms of sale" aren't even there, though buyers can be reported for listing interference if they purchase an item when they don't meet the terms (eg say it was a pick up only item, someone buys and expects it to be posted). 

 

When something happens and the seller needs to withdraw an item, they are presented with those 3 options above - if a buyer doesn't ask to cancel, and there's nothing wrong with the address, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if the second one appears to be the most appropriate to choose in a lot of cases.

 

The seller could have listed and sold the item elsewhere, before the auction ended, not knowing how to stop the auction etc (sellers are allowed to list and sell items in various places simultaneously, obviously, but they are not allowed to tell buyers that it's listed elsewhere) - this would make "I'm out of stock" the most appropriate reason for the cancellation. 

 

There could be any number of a million reasons the seller did what they did, and despite repeated accusations, I don't condone it, but the seller isn't in the forums, and / or hasn't provided any context to the situation at all, so there's no use debating their actions or intentions. 

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________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Re: Seller Cancels Auction Sale After Item is Paid for. / Bargains Depend entirely on Goodwill

 
 
in reply to 4channel

 

And how do you know the seller did anything dishonestly?  You don't like anyone calling you a liar but you're prepared to publicly libel someone else and call them a liar without any evidence whatsoever!!  If they started a libel case against you they'd win because you have absolutely no proof they were dishonest.

 

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Aaahh brerrabbit585 , Gosh I didn't realise that I did such an evil offence to ..............

 

"publicly libel someone else and call them a liar without any evidence whatsoever!!"     Robot Embarassed

 

Please can you help me and tell me exactly where it is so I can deliver an apology to the correct person. Smiley Happy

 

Thanks in advance brerrabbit585  for your cooperation.  Smiley Wink

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@ra157 wrote:

Hi Brerrarbbit585,
           My apologies - I missed seeing your question to me last night.

You state,
   "Occasionally, you may need to cancel a transaction because the item is broken, you made a mistake in your listing, or the item is out of stock.

 

If you don't agree with this part of the user agreement, why are you still on ebay?"

The obvious answer is that I am still on Ebay because I fully agree with that part of the User Agreement.

Why would you think otherwise?

Some years ago I bought a cassette deck for $40. Next day the seller contacted me and said roughly as follows
"Sorry, I went to packet today, decided to give it a final check - and discovered all the rubber rollers inside had gone gooey. You would have  a fit if I sent you this. I'll cancel the sale and refund you the money"

I said thanks, and went and bought another cassette deck for $40.

Do you think that in this case, Ebay went and gave the seller a warning because they thought the item was broken?
Had the seller supplied Ebay with pictures of the damage, they should have given her a commendation.
Regards,
Renato


Good point ra157. And, about the rubber rollers going gooey. That's an issue that comes up now and then as well

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