on 08-01-2019 07:11 PM - last edited on 08-01-2019 10:30 PM by gewens
On 26 Dec 2018, I got a nice auction win on a mini-monocular. I paid for it on Paypal. The seller then immediately caneclled the order on Paypal and refunded my money. I sent a message to the seller asking why, and I got no response. I then complained to Ebay.
Ebay advised that the auction was cancelled at PayPal, and that I should not worry about the extremely annoying "Unpaid Item" that is still listed against the item in My Ebay Summary
I just left a Negative rating.
As per my previous thread of very similar title, I am of the opinion that Ebay should ban sellers that engage in such a practice for life.
Regards,
Renato
on 11-01-2019 02:08 AM
@ra157,
I don't believe that you understand my position, so it's probably best that you avoid trying to re-explain it. If anyone is confused by what I mean, they can ask me and get it from the mare's mouth.
I sympathise with how I perceive that you feel in not having your highest (winning) bid honoured. I think you take your feelings of being aggrieved to higher levels than would be commensurate with what you've missed out on getting. I don't share your view (or what I believe to be your view) on the severity of the "crime". Sellers should complete transactions, but occasionally they won't. For that matter, buyers should complete transactions, but occasionally (and in far greater number than sellers not completing the transaction!) they won't.
Sometimes shoulda doesn't. Your imperfections, my imperfections... There's far more that I could say, but ... to what purpose?
Combative engagements are not for me. I argue from a perspective of seeking a negotiated position or with an interest in hearing different positions or to test my own position (which on some issues is fixed and firm, and on others is happy to learn), but never with a sole purpose that they bleed on both sides.
11-01-2019 08:30 AM - edited 11-01-2019 08:34 AM
@ra157 wrote:Thanks for your well thought out perspective.
What is missing though is the question of the penalty to act as a deterrence for the small number of times it happens. I don't see an effective one existing at the moment.
A life-time ban to an individual seems pretty reasonable to me.
To the big shops that you mention being culprits on occasion, well a month, two month or three month ban will most probably cause them sufficient financial loss to act as a deterrent, the total value of which will be far greater than the individual's life time ban.
If left to fester, the problem will only get worse.
Regards,
Renato
Just to clarify, I am not a regular seller now. I was back about 14 years ago but times & ebay have changed drastically since then.
So I may need to be corrected on this, but it is my understanding that sellers who do cancel a transaction can in fact suffer a penalty on their account. It seems to depend on the reason, but if they claim out of stock etc then it is a defect as that is under the control of the seller?
If it can be put down to the buyer, such as the buyer wished for the cancellation or the address the buyer gave was faulty, then no defect.
I'm a great believer in consequences so i understand what you mean by the need for a penalty, but what i would also say, after a lifetime teaching & having to deal with dozens of disputes every day, is that there also has to be some flexibility and for a first offence (depending on what it is of course) a discussion/warning of future consequences is usually appropriate.
What ebay should be looking out for, and what we in the school particularly would look out for, were patterns of behaviour.
So when we're talking about a sales cancellation, if someone who had a previously perfect record or who was brand new to ebay cancelled a sale, citing an error or item damaged or whatever, they could be given the benefit of the doubt. After all, accidents do happen. But they should also be sent a notice that basically says okay, you've got one defect, you can still sell but be careful as if this happens again any time soon, you will find yourself blocked from selling on ebay for a time. in other words, they need to be forewarned there are consequences & they are being monitored.
It's those who repeat the pattern who should start to feel the wrath of ebay.
I don't know that I would make a second offence a lifetime ban but this is the sort of thing that can be hard to judge without knowing exact details-what was cancelled each time, how close the cancellations were to each other, whether it was for the same item etc
All this needs a human to examine & judge & from what i can gather, humans are light on the ground at ebay & those who are on the help lines aren't always great either.
What i suspect though is ebay would never dream of banning any of the big shop sellers for even a month, not unless they did some really over the top bad stuff. They are going to look after their big money earners, not ban them. Ebay I think is probably not going to be keen on lifetime bans for either sellers or buyers. That's just what I suspect.
on 11-01-2019 05:12 PM
@collect247 wrote:How is a seller going to honor their auction when ebay doesn't honor their responsibility towards the seller?
Yes, ebay should look after the sellers more too. I agree.
11-01-2019 05:21 PM - edited 11-01-2019 05:24 PM
@4channel wrote:
@collect247 wrote:How is a seller going to honor their auction when ebay doesn't honor their responsibility towards the seller?
Yes, ebay should look after the sellers more too. I agree.
ironically, in the US and UK they do this by having the GSP so that sellers who do not wish to sell internationally can do so with greater protections than for those that use USPS or Royal Mail.
on 11-01-2019 06:18 PM
@k1ooo-slr-sales wrote:
@4channel wrote:
@collect247 wrote:How is a seller going to honor their auction when ebay doesn't honor their responsibility towards the seller?
Yes, ebay should look after the sellers more too. I agree.
ironically, in the US and UK they do this by having the GSP so that sellers who do not wish to sell internationally can do so with greater protections than for those that use USPS or Royal Mail.
Spoilerifwhen it gets rolled out here I would use it
on 12-01-2019 04:14 PM
@k1ooo-slr-sales wrote:
@4channel wrote:
@collect247 wrote:How is a seller going to honor their auction when ebay doesn't honor their responsibility towards the seller?
Yes, ebay should look after the sellers more too. I agree.
ironically, in the US and UK they do this by having the GSP so that sellers who do not wish to sell internationally can do so with greater protections than for those that use USPS or Royal Mail.
Spoilerifwhen it gets rolled out here I would use it
Sorry k1ooo-slr-sales, but I beg to differ. Ebay USA or Ebay UK don't look after the seller by having GSP. The sole purpose of Pitney Bowes GSP is to make money for Pitney Bowes. Anything else is secondary! In actual fact, Ebay hoisting GSP onto sellers is doing them a disservice in the long run as the punters will be looking elswhere for cheaper postage which USPS and GB Post provide. They go elsewhere and the seller loses business.
There's also the economical aspect for both buyer and seller, a big saving by purchasing multiple items from a seller and combining. This is a feature that Pitney Bowes with its GSP does not provide. Also there are so old school sellers with old fashioned ethics and values, IE: When a job is worth doing, it's worth doing well". Having an item confliscated by Pitney Bowes as it happens, does not give a feeling of satisfaction to a seller with values and ethics. This causes grief to the buyer. It's also a headache for the seller.
12-01-2019 04:50 PM - edited 12-01-2019 04:52 PM
@4channel
please take off your blinkers and read my post again. I even bolded the relevant words that your blinkers prevented you from reading. Here it is again, using colour, as I have noticed you like using colour in your posts:
ironically, in the US and UK they do this by having the GSP so that sellers who do not wish to sell internationally can do so with greater protections than for those that use USPS or Royal Mail.
My post was about how sellers who wouldn’t normally sell internationally have extra protections, so they would not be missing out on bids/sales because of the GSP because domestic buyers do not pay the GSP, and in fact, the GSP may increase the amount they get for their items as overseas buyers might bid/buy simply because they can’t get the item in their country and they can afford and are willing to pay the GSP costs to ensure they get the item.
As always, if the cost of GSP on a US/UK item is too much for overseas buyers they are not forced to buy.
on 16-01-2019 11:20 AM
@k1ooo-slr-sales wrote:Renato, let me assure you that I do not consider my time as being ‘precious’. I retired two years ago (officially it is just one year as they kept paying me for 13 months after I finished - due to accrued leave) and I enjoy posting on these boards and do not consider it as taking up my valuable time.
SpoilerI probably do spend too much time on these boards, but while doing so I am not getting up to mischief or misdeeds.Thanks for clarifying your judgement about the seller. As the actual buyer who has been wronged I see no problem with what you have posted about your impressions about their morals and ethics.
Thanks.
It's good being retired, is it not?
I've been tardy responding here because of our heat wave - spending most days down the beach.
Regards,
Renato
on 16-01-2019 11:32 AM
@4channel wrote:Yes ra157, that's what it's all about. Being straight with the buyer and seller taking responsibility for an error if one is made. There's also another angle to all this as well. Some few might call it selfish in a way but I am a believer in karma, and doing the right thing does bring back good fortune later on down the track.
Hi 4Channel,
Thanks for that, but it has finally happened - we disagree on something.
I don't believe in Karma.
I'll agree that people that behave well, generally are more likely to be treated well and have better lives, than people who behave poorly. But history and current backward governments around the world and people involved with criminal enetrprises show that people can behave abysmally and appallingly, and still wind up with wealth and in great postions of power.
To my mind, that tends to disprove Karma.
Regards,
Renato
on 16-01-2019 12:41 PM
@countessalmirena wrote:@ra157,
I don't believe that you understand my position, so it's probably best that you avoid trying to re-explain it. If anyone is confused by what I mean, they can ask me and get it from the mare's mouth.
I sympathise with how I perceive that you feel in not having your highest (winning) bid honoured. I think you take your feelings of being aggrieved to higher levels than would be commensurate with what you've missed out on getting. I don't share your view (or what I believe to be your view) on the severity of the "crime". Sellers should complete transactions, but occasionally they won't. For that matter, buyers should complete transactions, but occasionally (and in far greater number than sellers not completing the transaction!) they won't.
Sometimes shoulda doesn't. Your imperfections, my imperfections... There's far more that I could say, but ... to what purpose?
Combative engagements are not for me. I argue from a perspective of seeking a negotiated position or with an interest in hearing different positions or to test my own position (which on some issues is fixed and firm, and on others is happy to learn), but never with a sole purpose that they bleed on both sides.
Hi,
We plainly live with different world views. You want to get a negotiated position on something where, in accordance with the rules and structure within which sellers and buyers operate, there is nothing to negotiate.
You say that sellers should complete transactions, but occasionally they won't. And leave it at that - which seems to be Ebay's position as well.
I tend to be more black and white in my thinking on such issues.
Regards,
Renato