Trust on eBay, and the feedback system

[damien_pw]

I'm a long time eBay user, and like anybody, trust is probably my main concern. Can I trust the seller I am purchasing from? Can I trust the buyer bidding on my item to follow through? As a buyer, we have the feedback system to help us avoid those bad transactions. As a seller there's probably a little less protection - the options to screen buyers are a little limited, but that's another discussion.

So, as buyers, we rely on the feedback system. Personally, I try to avoid dealing with any seller having below 99% feedback. You may say that's a little harsh, but I work on the assumption that for every negative feedback a seller receives, there's probably a few more that they've been able to avoid. In fact, in the past I have had sellers drag out resolutions to the point where my abaility to leave any sort of feedback has expired (I'm pretty careful about this now).

Case in point, I won an auction recently. It was an item I didn't particularly need, but thought I would have a go as I wanted to try it, and the price was quite low ($1 no reserve auction on a fairly niche bit of camera kit). The seller had 100% positive feedback, there were only a few bids, and in the end I won the item at a very good price indeed. Moving along to the payment screen then, and found I was unable to pay for the item. Within a few minutes, the seller had cancelled the order. Reason: "I'm out of stock or the item is damaged". Sounds like a generic 'tick a box' excuse to me. There was no other communication from the seller.

Within a week, I noted that the item had relisted - no longer at $1 no reserve, but for $99 buy-it-now thank you very much. Exactly the same item (it was used, there were photos - the very same photos from the earlier listing). Perhaps I have an overdeveloped sense of moral outrage, but to my thinking, a seller on eBay should not get away with doing this sort of thing scott-free. So after a little research (googling 'ebay Seller cancelled after I won' seemed to do the trick), I decided that eBay would probably be do little to address my concerns, and the recommended course of action would be to leave negative feedback.

Now, I didn't lose any money on this transaction, it was just a little inconvenient to go through the bidding process, get excited about my win, and then try to pay for ten minutes before realising I'd been ghosted on the auction. After some thought I concluded that leaving neutral feedback would be fair. The feedback was something like "Won aucton. Seller cancelled, then relisted at higher price. Poor form". I thought that was quite fair (my wife said I should have left negative feedback, but in the absence of monetary lost, I did not think that justified). Anyway, I thought that was quite fair, and left it at that....

...until, some time later I wondered if the seller might have responded with counter-feedback. Like a dog with a bone who can't leave it alone, I had to have a look. I brought the seller profile up, clicked through to their feedback, and…wait a sec...where's my feedback?!? It was there before - where did it go?!?!? Nooooo way? Did they remove my terribly fair and factual, 80 character limited feedback?! DID EBAY ACTUALLY JUST REMOVE MY FEEDBACK, WITHOUT TELLING ME!!?!?!?!

I was pretty fired up after that. On to live chat then with my righteous indignation! I explained the situation, and how I felt that this was an abuse of trust and that the seller should at least face some form of penalty. Very quickly I was passed from one consultant to another, who informed me, "I did check the details [...] the seller appealed on the feedback which the system removed as there was no payment made."

"What?!?!", I choked out (well, this was a text chat, but I became livid in person)..."they cancelled the order within two minutes of me winning the auction, so of course no payment was made!!!! How was I supposed to pay?!?!?!". The conversation went on for a short while longer, but the general gist was, sorry, we can't do anything now, but we will put in a report as we can see that what you say is true. Can't tell you anything else...blah blah blah, privacy, blah blah blah. Case closed.

I should point out, I've over 1,000 transactions on eBay now...the vast majority as a buyer, and very rarely have I left negative or neutral feedback. In fact, after scrolling through the 1,106 feedback ratings I have left for others, I found two negatives and two neutrals. "Wow", you may well say, "you've been super lucky on eBay"! Well, it's not so much that. I have had more negative experiences than these few. Usually things are resolved, or the experience simply wasn't bad enough to drive me to diss on a seller. Sometimes I will simply not leave feedback at all. Only when there is truly bad behaviour on the seller's part will I go the mile and leave less than positive feedback.

So, how does eBay increase trust? If it's so easy for a party to (and let's call a spade a shovel here) lie, and have feedback removed on appeal with no communication whatsoever with the complainant, then how can we trust the feedback system at all? How many buyers and sellers are able to have negative feedback removed so easily? It could be argued that negative feedback impacts sales and adversely affacts eBay's business, but I'm sure that if the feedback system is not robust, then surely that also has a negative impact?

No easy answers I'm sure.

I should give some credit to eBay for live chat...the ability to get onto live chat now is a much better thing than we ever had in the early days of eBay, when it was very difficult to get any sort of answer to a question at all. At least there's some small sense that you may be heard by eBay.

[11dustyattic]

Yes I haven't read all of your reply yet (my son's birthday and breakfast is late lol) but with regard to how many more negs that may have been removed, yes you wonder how much more they sold that wasn't in stock.

But I respect your choices too. We all have our way of using the site. I'm not saying my way or the highway. I make mistakes of course

[suart-69]

Damien - you pose an important question: 'how does ebay increase trust'?   

Briefly, having been in discourse with a seller about an advertised bed and (included) mattress, we arrived at an agreed price.  The seller however, has moved the goal posts, advising that the mattress (contrary to the advertised listing) was now not included and seeking to increase their earlier agreed price.    In truth, I am not out of pocket but would I bother with ebay again, possibly but unlikely.

In returning to Damien's question, in cruising the ebay website, it is almost impossible to discern a straight forward concise instruction on feedback on sellers and the chat facility was 'closed' (despite being within the nominated operating hours).  These difficulties combined with my overall experience, does not instill trust in ebay.

[dvd.horder]

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@11dustyattic wrote:

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@damien_pw wrote:

I'm a long time eBay user, and like anybody, trust is probably my main concern. Can I trust the seller I am purchasing from? Can I trust the buyer bidding on my item to follow through? As a buyer, we have the feedback system to help us avoid those bad transactions. As a seller there's probably a little less protection - the options to screen buyers are a little limited, but that's another discussion.

So, as buyers, we rely on the feedback system. Personally, I try to avoid dealing with any seller having below 99% feedback. You may say that's a little harsh, but I work on the assumption that for every negative feedback a seller receives, there's probably a few more that they've been able to avoid. In fact, in the past I have had sellers drag out resolutions to the point where my abaility to leave any sort of feedback has expired (I'm pretty careful about this now).

Case in point, I won an auction recently. It was an item I didn't particularly need, but thought I would have a go as I wanted to try it, and the price was quite low ($1 no reserve auction on a fairly niche bit of camera kit). The seller had 100% positive feedback, there were only a few bids, and in the end I won the item at a very good price indeed. Moving along to the payment screen then, and found I was unable to pay for the item. Within a few minutes, the seller had cancelled the order. Reason: "I'm out of stock or the item is damaged". Sounds like a generic 'tick a box' excuse to me. There was no other communication from the seller.

Within a week, I noted that the item had relisted - no longer at $1 no reserve, but for $99 buy-it-now thank you very much. Exactly the same item (it was used, there were photos - the very same photos from the earlier listing). Perhaps I have an overdeveloped sense of moral outrage, but to my thinking, a seller on eBay should not get away with doing this sort of thing scott-free. So after a little research (googling 'ebay Seller cancelled after I won' seemed to do the trick), I decided that eBay would probably be do little to address my concerns, and the recommended course of action would be to leave negative feedback.

Now, I didn't lose any money on this transaction, it was just a little inconvenient to go through the bidding process, get excited about my win, and then try to pay for ten minutes before realising I'd been ghosted on the auction. After some thought I concluded that leaving neutral feedback would be fair. The feedback was something like "Won aucton. Seller cancelled, then relisted at higher price. Poor form". I thought that was quite fair (my wife said I should have left negative feedback, but in the absence of monetary lost, I did not think that justified). Anyway, I thought that was quite fair, and left it at that....

...until, some time later I wondered if the seller might have responded with counter-feedback. Like a dog with a bone who can't leave it alone, I had to have a look. I brought the seller profile up, clicked through to their feedback, and…wait a sec...where's my feedback?!? It was there before - where did it go?!?!? Nooooo way? Did they remove my terribly fair and factual, 80 character limited feedback?! DID EBAY ACTUALLY JUST REMOVE MY FEEDBACK, WITHOUT TELLING ME!!?!?!?!

I was pretty fired up after that. On to live chat then with my righteous indignation! I explained the situation, and how I felt that this was an abuse of trust and that the seller should at least face some form of penalty. Very quickly I was passed from one consultant to another, who informed me, "I did check the details [...] the seller appealed on the feedback which the system removed as there was no payment made."

"What?!?!", I choked out (well, this was a text chat, but I became livid in person)..."they cancelled the order within two minutes of me winning the auction, so of course no payment was made!!!! How was I supposed to pay?!?!?!". The conversation went on for a short while longer, but the general gist was, sorry, we can't do anything now, but we will put in a report as we can see that what you say is true. Can't tell you anything else...blah blah blah, privacy, blah blah blah. Case closed.

I should point out, I've over 1,000 transactions on eBay now...the vast majority as a buyer, and very rarely have I left negative or neutral feedback. In fact, after scrolling through the 1,106 feedback ratings I have left for others, I found two negatives and two neutrals. "Wow", you may well say, "you've been super lucky on eBay"! Well, it's not so much that. I have had more negative experiences than these few. Usually things are resolved, or the experience simply wasn't bad enough to drive me to diss on a seller. Sometimes I will simply not leave feedback at all. Only when there is truly bad behaviour on the seller's part will I go the mile and leave less than positive feedback.

So, how does eBay increase trust? If it's so easy for a party to (and let's call a spade a shovel here) lie, and have feedback removed on appeal with no communication whatsoever with the complainant, then how can we trust the feedback system at all? How many buyers and sellers are able to have negative feedback removed so easily? It could be argued that negative feedback impacts sales and adversely affacts eBay's business, but I'm sure that if the feedback system is not robust, then surely that also has a negative impact?

No easy answers I'm sure.

I should give some credit to eBay for live chat...the ability to get onto live chat now is a much better thing than we ever had in the early days of eBay, when it was very difficult to get any sort of answer to a question at all. At least there's some small sense that you may be heard by eBay.

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Let me explain a few things.

Firstly, the seller percentage rating. I currently have about 5 negs I think. My percentage plunged to 92% at one point. Every positive feedback I now receive, it goes up a whopping 0.01% 😁 My total feedback is kust under 1500 and I usually sell an item or 2 every few days, so not high activity but not bad. A chinese seller with 92% feedback with a total feedback of 220,000 and high activity, would mean they have hundreds of unhappy buyers, maybe thousands. Feedback percentages are subjective based on many factors. 

Your decision to not buy from percentages below 99% is yours, but keep in mind many negs are left by scammers, so the seller doesn't only suffer the pain pf losing a large amount of money, but then a whole year with an unfair negative feedback. Do you know why the seller was given a negative? You are far better off clicking on the number and carefully reading ALL feedback and checking out their registration location while you're there. You can get a clearer idea of common problems (for example items damaged through poor packaging or underquoting postage and buyers getting stung at the other end, some of which are mentioned in positive or neutral feedbacks hence wouldn't affect percentage score but might be a concern for you)

I found it didn't effect my sales thankfully but limiting yourself to a set percentage, well your choice but I always click on the number and thoroughly check out anyone I sell to or buy from.

As for your ire over the seller cancelling, interesting you mentioned the start price and that it was a choice item, yet didn't mention what you won the item for. It's little details like that that I notice 😉

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[dvd.horder]

you made good.. points there

[katistrophik]

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@dvd.horder wrote:

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@11dustyattic wrote:

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@damien_pw wrote:

I'm a long time eBay user, and like anybody, trust is probably my main concern. Can I trust the seller I am purchasing from? Can I trust the buyer bidding on my item to follow through? As a buyer, we have the feedback system to help us avoid those bad transactions. As a seller there's probably a little less protection - the options to screen buyers are a little limited, but that's another discussion.

So, as buyers, we rely on the feedback system. Personally, I try to avoid dealing with any seller having below 99% feedback. You may say that's a little harsh, but I work on the assumption that for every negative feedback a seller receives, there's probably a few more that they've been able to avoid. In fact, in the past I have had sellers drag out resolutions to the point where my abaility to leave any sort of feedback has expired (I'm pretty careful about this now).

Case in point, I won an auction recently. It was an item I didn't particularly need, but thought I would have a go as I wanted to try it, and the price was quite low ($1 no reserve auction on a fairly niche bit of camera kit). The seller had 100% positive feedback, there were only a few bids, and in the end I won the item at a very good price indeed. Moving along to the payment screen then, and found I was unable to pay for the item. Within a few minutes, the seller had cancelled the order. Reason: "I'm out of stock or the item is damaged". Sounds like a generic 'tick a box' excuse to me. There was no other communication from the seller.

Within a week, I noted that the item had relisted - no longer at $1 no reserve, but for $99 buy-it-now thank you very much. Exactly the same item (it was used, there were photos - the very same photos from the earlier listing). Perhaps I have an overdeveloped sense of moral outrage, but to my thinking, a seller on eBay should not get away with doing this sort of thing scott-free. So after a little research (googling 'ebay Seller cancelled after I won' seemed to do the trick), I decided that eBay would probably be do little to address my concerns, and the recommended course of action would be to leave negative feedback.

Now, I didn't lose any money on this transaction, it was just a little inconvenient to go through the bidding process, get excited about my win, and then try to pay for ten minutes before realising I'd been ghosted on the auction. After some thought I concluded that leaving neutral feedback would be fair. The feedback was something like "Won aucton. Seller cancelled, then relisted at higher price. Poor form". I thought that was quite fair (my wife said I should have left negative feedback, but in the absence of monetary lost, I did not think that justified). Anyway, I thought that was quite fair, and left it at that....

...until, some time later I wondered if the seller might have responded with counter-feedback. Like a dog with a bone who can't leave it alone, I had to have a look. I brought the seller profile up, clicked through to their feedback, and…wait a sec...where's my feedback?!? It was there before - where did it go?!?!? Nooooo way? Did they remove my terribly fair and factual, 80 character limited feedback?! DID EBAY ACTUALLY JUST REMOVE MY FEEDBACK, WITHOUT TELLING ME!!?!?!?!

I was pretty fired up after that. On to live chat then with my righteous indignation! I explained the situation, and how I felt that this was an abuse of trust and that the seller should at least face some form of penalty. Very quickly I was passed from one consultant to another, who informed me, "I did check the details [...] the seller appealed on the feedback which the system removed as there was no payment made."

"What?!?!", I choked out (well, this was a text chat, but I became livid in person)..."they cancelled the order within two minutes of me winning the auction, so of course no payment was made!!!! How was I supposed to pay?!?!?!". The conversation went on for a short while longer, but the general gist was, sorry, we can't do anything now, but we will put in a report as we can see that what you say is true. Can't tell you anything else...blah blah blah, privacy, blah blah blah. Case closed.

I should point out, I've over 1,000 transactions on eBay now...the vast majority as a buyer, and very rarely have I left negative or neutral feedback. In fact, after scrolling through the 1,106 feedback ratings I have left for others, I found two negatives and two neutrals. "Wow", you may well say, "you've been super lucky on eBay"! Well, it's not so much that. I have had more negative experiences than these few. Usually things are resolved, or the experience simply wasn't bad enough to drive me to diss on a seller. Sometimes I will simply not leave feedback at all. Only when there is truly bad behaviour on the seller's part will I go the mile and leave less than positive feedback.

So, how does eBay increase trust? If it's so easy for a party to (and let's call a spade a shovel here) lie, and have feedback removed on appeal with no communication whatsoever with the complainant, then how can we trust the feedback system at all? How many buyers and sellers are able to have negative feedback removed so easily? It could be argued that negative feedback impacts sales and adversely affacts eBay's business, but I'm sure that if the feedback system is not robust, then surely that also has a negative impact?

No easy answers I'm sure.

I should give some credit to eBay for live chat...the ability to get onto live chat now is a much better thing than we ever had in the early days of eBay, when it was very difficult to get any sort of answer to a question at all. At least there's some small sense that you may be heard by eBay.

---

Let me explain a few things.

Firstly, the seller percentage rating. I currently have about 5 negs I think. My percentage plunged to 92% at one point. Every positive feedback I now receive, it goes up a whopping 0.01% 😁 My total feedback is kust under 1500 and I usually sell an item or 2 every few days, so not high activity but not bad. A chinese seller with 92% feedback with a total feedback of 220,000 and high activity, would mean they have hundreds of unhappy buyers, maybe thousands. Feedback percentages are subjective based on many factors. 

Your decision to not buy from percentages below 99% is yours, but keep in mind many negs are left by scammers, so the seller doesn't only suffer the pain pf losing a large amount of money, but then a whole year with an unfair negative feedback. Do you know why the seller was given a negative? You are far better off clicking on the number and carefully reading ALL feedback and checking out their registration location while you're there. You can get a clearer idea of common problems (for example items damaged through poor packaging or underquoting postage and buyers getting stung at the other end, some of which are mentioned in positive or neutral feedbacks hence wouldn't affect percentage score but might be a concern for you)

I found it didn't effect my sales thankfully but limiting yourself to a set percentage, well your choice but I always click on the number and thoroughly check out anyone I sell to or buy from.

As for your ire over the seller cancelling, interesting you mentioned the start price and that it was a choice item, yet didn't mention what you won the item for. It's little details like that that I notice 😉

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Ooops, did we just out ourseles

[katistrophik]

Last Line:  It's little details like that that I notice 

Okay I'll stop now