What to do re missing parcel? Will Australia Post take responsibility, is it worth pursuing?

[theblackrobyn]

Hi all, long term eBayer here, mainly a buyer but have also been a seller of odds and ends of my own over the years - this is my first time posting on the boards though as I have a dilemma and I'm not sure how best to proceed.

In all my ebaying years I think I only ever had one parcel go missing years ago, and I think in that case the seller sent me a replacement.  More recently I had a bad transaction with a new seller who clearly did not send my item (I think she wasn't happy with the final price she got) and she provided fake tracking numbers and told all sorts of lies in her emails (they were quite funny to read as she kept contradicting herself) so in the end I lodged a claim with Paypal and was able to get a refund.

I don't recall ever having one single parcel that I have sent myself as a seller go missing, so here I am for some advice as despite my years of eBay experience, I haven't really had much at all in dealing with missing items.

I recently purchased two tops from the same seller who sent them via Express Post.  I purchased and paid for them on Sunday 29/9, then late that week realised that they should have arrived as they were express post.  So, I checked my ebay and saw that the seller had marked the items as posted on the Monday 30/9 and also included a tracking number.

I checked the Aus Post Website and it said 'Delivered' and a Suburb name on 1/10.  Now that's where it gets interesting as I have a padlock on my mailbox and nothing but letters can be fit in the slot, so I was actually expecting to receive a collection card from my local PO.

So, I sent a message to the seller to re-confim the details, she confirmed that the tracking number was correct, she has a receipt, the item was sent on 30/9, and she also has a pic of the parcel and confirmed correct address.

Next step was a trip to my local PO (it was impossible to actually get them on the phone!) and they did a search but had nothing for me.  I then visited the St Kilda DC (which is sometimes where parcels go when they are large) and they also had nothing for me.

The seller kindly lodged an enquiry with Aus Post.  Aus Post have now responded with some story that they 'spoke to the postman and he said he remembers delivering it'.  Well, I have a couple of issues with that, the first being how the h*ll he could remember one parcel from 2 weeks ago in a street with heaps of apartments and presumably lots of parcels, and more importantly, this can't be true as I have a lock on my mailbox.

So the seller has now suggested I contact Aus Post myself with the case number and see if I can get anywhere. 

She also offered me a half refund, but I don't see why either of us should be out of pocket if she has done the right thing and it's Aus Post's stuff up.  I believe that the seller did send the items - so I think Aus Post should be responsible as they have lost it.  However I'm not sure whether it's worth escalating to a complaint - do they even pay compensation?  I'm willing to sign a stat dec to confirm I have not received the parcel. 

I paid for the items with paypal, however I think if I made a paypal claim then the seller would be the one out of pocket and that's not fair either.

The other reason I am teed off with Aus Post is that the other day I noticed they'd left a small box on top of the brick bank of letterboxes out front of my apartment - I picked it up thinking it was rubbish, but it was a parcel addressed to someone in my building who also has a lock on their mailbox - so the postie just left it sitting on top right on the street for anyone to take.  I wish I'd taken a picture now, perhaps that's what they did with my parcel and then someone walking past has snatched it.

Has anyone successfully pursued Aus Post for compensation?  Was it a nightmare?  Not sure whether to just accept the half refund and move on, or whether to escalate and complain.  We're talking 60 odd dollars here, however it's the principle of the thing.

Would be grateful to hear about others who have had a similar experience, or who can offer some advice.

[schwe-fran]

Sorry to hear ! ...Thats a big loss .  I am getting the feeling  there is a lot of thieving in Australia post , and some how an investigation needs to be launched into their systems . 

[kidres0]

My $335 (with postage) item was apparently stolen, allegedly after delivered to letter box. They concluded it was delivered to my letterbox from postie recollection, but provided no proof of it (they didn't specifically address my GPS inquiry, and said they had no photo). Ebay was oddly reporting it delivered twice exactly 3 hours apart (this happened a few days after the start of DST and I am in Western Australia). There was a person home at the time who was at the computer, but they chose to jam a parcel probably half sticking out of the letterbox instead. I registered it as a stolen item with the police.

Was advised to ask the seller for compensation. I raised it to a dispute and asked him to make an effort for compensation. It sounds like he made a couple minute long call where he only broadly said he was absolved of any and all responsibility. I tried getting clarification on the matter of compensation 3 times and he gave them same dismissive response. I don't think he even raised the issue. Before this he also left me a positive-negative feedback implying I was scamming/a thief. In the dispute process, he came out and said it, calling me a scammer.

I lost the dispute (I only asked for what Australia Post may have given him if he tried) because Aus Post have it marked as delivered and have no compensation to show for it, but left him a nice negative feedback all the same. My VERY FIRST. Even if Aus Post wouldn't have given the compensation, he should have asked. Instead, he posted a half-truth to my profile causing me to lose at least one purchase so far. To be the victim of a thief and be called a thief really angers me most of all.

[kidres0]

For the record, the impression I have gotten from all of my reading is that the seller is responsible for the entire cost of the item until it is marked as delivered. That is say it was sent regular post with $50 default coverage. It makes no difference from the buyers end than if it were sent Express Post with $100 coverage. Or had extra coverage attached to it: the buyer is entitled to the full refund through ebay unless it has been marked as delivered (signature or not). It is the sellers duty to make sure it is properly covered, ebay should refund all the money whether or not it leaves the seller in a loser in the situation. But as soon as it's marked as delivered, I'm not sure what happens. I have seen a few posts that suggest this is a magic threshold that means the courier is not responsible, the seller is not liable for anything and the purchaser of the product is not able to claim anything either apart from go to the police with a lost item report, which in all likelihood they don't have a serial number for, but I don't know if specific circumstances alter that which is why I expected my seller to make some kind of an effort to get compensation, which he never did or if he did he deliberately circumvented discussing it with me so basically amounts to the same thing for me.

When claiming, I made a claim for what Aus Post might have given him in compensation, but if I was going to succeed I was actually due everything. It is his duty to insure the parcel, just as it is his duty to retrieve the money (because obviously they couldn't care less about doing it for any of their customers). It is ebays duty to refund the money to the buyer through disputes.

I don't think getting it signed for delivery necessarily protects you that much either. All the accounts I've read seems to suggest you have to jump through hurdles to prove the signature is not a resident of your property. But I guess it does prevent it from being delivered to your letterbox.

There was a bit of luck with my item. My item was a MIDI-kind of keyboard that outputs no sound of its own, but requires specialist software. I had the foresight in the bidding process to ask the seller if he had tied up the registration number. He had but showed a photo of a deactivation screen, which enabled me to get the serial code which turns out doubles as the serial number. So my stolen item report is backed by a serial number. It also makes the device inoperable without a $180 USD program. It does attach to other 'blocks' for more octaves, I'm not sure what happens there, whether the device still needs to be registered or not.

Personally, it wouldn't surprise me if the seller has gotten or will get it in the future if it is bounced back to him and keep the instrument for himself, so I attempted to warn him it is now a stolen item. I have also told Australia Post that I didn't get any compensation, I have given up because it is clear I HAVE NO RIGHTS and if he claims on any he is defrauding them as he has suffered no loss himself.

Personally, it just gave me real great satisfaction seeing his seller positive fall from 100% to 91.7%. I also see he is an utter hypocrite complaining of sellers taking no responsibility in his feedbacks to his sellers. It's been an expensive lesson and I'm not sure I have any faith in the system anymore. There is really protection for you as a buyer once they say it was delivered, especially if you have a seller who trolls your feedback when you are trying to get him to do the right thing.

[padi*0409]

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@kidres0 wrote:

For the record, the impression I have gotten from all of my reading is that the seller is responsible for the entire cost of the item until it is marked as delivered. That is say it was sent regular post with $50 default coverage. It makes no difference from the buyers end than if it were sent Express Post with $100 coverage. Or had extra coverage attached to it: the buyer is entitled to the full refund through ebay unless it has been marked as delivered (signature or not). It is the sellers duty to make sure it is properly covered, ebay should refund all the money whether or not it leaves the seller in a loser in the situation. But as soon as it's marked as delivered, I'm not sure what happens. I have seen a few posts that suggest this is a magic threshold that means the courier is not responsible, the seller is not liable for anything and the purchaser of the product is not able to claim anything either apart from go to the police with a lost item report, which in all likelihood they don't have a serial number for, but I don't know if specific circumstances alter that which is why I expected my seller to make some kind of an effort to get compensation, which he never did or if he did he deliberately circumvented discussing it with me so basically amounts to the same thing for me.

The item WAS marked as delivered by AP, so the seller is covered by the seller protection, it's not the sellers fault if the item is stolen from your letter box. Also once the item is marked as delivered it is only you who can raise a dispute with AP - the seller cannot go through AP once delivery has been made.

When claiming, I made a claim for what Aus Post might have given him in compensation, but if I was going to succeed I was actually due everything. It is his duty to insure the parcel, just as it is his duty to retrieve the money (because obviously they couldn't care less about doing it for any of their customers). It is ebays duty to refund the money to the buyer through disputes.

Nope, because the item was flagged as delivered by AP, and it's not the seller's "duty" to insure the item though most would at that price, but even then it not very likely that AP would compensate them when the item has been delivered to you - according to their scans.

I don't think getting it signed for delivery necessarily protects you that much either. All the accounts I've read seems to suggest you have to jump through hurdles to prove the signature is not a resident of your property. But I guess it does prevent it from being delivered to your letterbox.

There was a bit of luck with my item. My item was a MIDI-kind of keyboard that outputs no sound of its own, but requires specialist software. I had the foresight in the bidding process to ask the seller if he had tied up the registration number. He had but showed a photo of a deactivation screen, which enabled me to get the serial code which turns out doubles as the serial number. So my stolen item report is backed by a serial number. It also makes the device inoperable without a $180 USD program. It does attach to other 'blocks' for more octaves, I'm not sure what happens there, whether the device still needs to be registered or not.

Personally, it wouldn't surprise me if the seller has gotten or will get it in the future if it is bounced back to him and keep the instrument for himself, so I attempted to warn him it is now a stolen item. I have also told Australia Post that I didn't get any compensation, I have given up because it is clear I HAVE NO RIGHTS and if he claims on any he is defrauding them as he has suffered no loss himself.

That's just your assumptions.

Personally, it just gave me real great satisfaction seeing his seller positive fall from 100% to 91.7%. I also see he is an utter hypocrite complaining of sellers taking no responsibility in his feedbacks to his sellers. It's been an expensive lesson and I'm not sure I have any faith in the system anymore. There is really protection for you as a buyer once they say it was delivered, especially if you have a seller who trolls your feedback when you are trying to get him to do the right thing.

As I said earlier, the seller is not at fault he/she cannot be responsible for theft of an item from your letterbox - if that's what happened. His feedback to you was not trolling, it was just a factual response by them.

I also have my doubts whether your feedback to them was justified anyway.

The seller may even suspect that it's you trying to scam them......................

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[kidres0]

The item WAS marked as delivered by AP, so the seller is covered by the seller protection, it's not the sellers fault if the item is stolen from your letter box. Also once the item is marked as delivered it is only you who can raise a dispute with AP - the seller cannot go through AP once delivery has been made.

Well, that's interesting because Aus Post kept directing me to the seller on the matter. It is his duty to be of assistance to his customers because a bad experience equals bad feedback. He had EVERY opportunity to tell me about the specifics of a compensation request. Instead, he attacked me on feedback.

As I said earlier, the seller is not at fault he/she cannot be responsible for theft of an item from your letterbox - if that's what happened. His feedback to you was not trolling, it was just a factual response by them.

It was a half-truth: it was factual but not the complete story. He did only did it knowing I was claiming it was stolen, but knowing I had filed a police report on it. It was also not signed for. Anyone reading that might come away with that impression, because it isn't complete. Feedback to buyers is suppose to be a thank you: don't believe me, look it up. That's why it is only positive. Unlike with sellers where you can leave negative feedbacks I have not been given an avenue to reply to it and fill in the remainder of the details. He abused the feedback to buyer when I was not doing anything wrong! I was not trying to get him to give me anything out of his pocket.

[davewil1964]

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@kidres0 wrote:

The item WAS marked as delivered by AP, so the seller is covered by the seller protection, it's not the sellers fault if the item is stolen from your letter box. Also once the item is marked as delivered it is only you who can raise a dispute with AP - the seller cannot go through AP once delivery has been made.

Well, that's interesting because Aus Post kept directing me to the seller on the matter. It is his duty to be of assistance to his customers because a bad experience equals bad feedback. He had EVERY opportunity to tell me about the specifics of a compensation request. Instead, he attacked me on feedback.

As I said earlier, the seller is not at fault he/she cannot be responsible for theft of an item from your letterbox - if that's what happened. His feedback to you was not trolling, it was just a factual response by them.

It was a half-truth: it was factual but not the complete story. He did only did it knowing I was claiming it was stolen, but knowing I had filed a police report on it. It was also not signed for. Anyone reading that might come away with that impression, because it isn't complete. Feedback to buyers is suppose to be a thank you: don't believe me, look it up. That's why it is only positive. Unlike with sellers where you can leave negative feedbacks I have not been given an avenue to reply to it and fill in the remainder of the details. He abused the feedback to buyer when I was not doing anything wrong! I was not trying to get him to give me anything out of his pocket.

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You should, then, be directing AP to their own policies. As padi said, the seller has no duty to assist you, especially when AP claim the item was delivered. After that time you need to pursue AP. Vigorously, I suggest. Their staff/contractors all have GPS, so AP can certainly provide more information than they have done.

[kidres0]

Subsequent inquiries with AP were stone-walled with the claim: "we cannot provide you anymore details without the sellers permission". Even IF AP were lying, that there was something/anything I could do given my responses from AP which I provided him a screen cap to, he should have asked about compensation. Just bring it up! Instead of tell me he had brought the subject up and was denied, he gave me the feedback, called me a scammer and deserved everything he got in return.

I seriously hope you people find yourselves in this position someday where you are the victim of theft, continually directed to a seller on the matter of compensation (as he is the person who bought their services) but the seller refuses to be of any help and then attacks you for asking for it. Because that's what happened.

[padi*0409]

"Instead, he attacked me on feedback."

No he did not, as said he just gave a factual response, in that AP had shown the item was delivered.

He said:-

"Buyer claimed item not delivered, delivery service confirmed it was delivered"

However your neg said:-

"Liar won't asst in lost item compens, only he can; accuses & half-truths instead"

If that's not an attack by you on the seller then I don't know what is.................

I would also note that the seller has only sold 11 items over 10 years on eBay, so is relatively inexperienced in selling and may not know how to deal with stolen items, and in fact it's your problem the item was stolen from your letterbox not his. I would suggest that if the seller asked for that neg to be removed, eBay might well remove it.

Sorry to be less than positive towards your problem, but the facts speak for themselves in this instance. 

[kidres0]

It was a HALF-TRUTH:

"The statement might be partly true, the statement may be totally true but only part of the whole truth, or it may use some deceptive element, such as improper punctuation, or double meaning, especially if the intent is to deceive, evade, blame or misrepresent the truth."

He knew there was more to the story, yet he posted something to incriminate me that I was indefensible against! For asking for help!

As mentioned, it was my first ever negative. I don't take them lightly. If ebay removes it, they will beyond redemption.

[crankful]

To all reading the post from kidres, the buyer is clearly an unstable person and was fishing for compensation from Australia Post. They have confirmed compensation is not applicable and buyer should seek help from Police as he claimed parcels were stolen from his mailbox. I have followed all his demands, and answered numerous messages, and wasted enough of my time. Glad eBay made the right decision by closing the case and not refunding the buyer.