ebay versus Amazon: poor support from ebay for fraud

[ktm690r]

I recently experienced fraud through ebay and lost over $300. The 'Powerseller' had a high rating and accepted payment through Paypal. I wanted to help the seller so I offered to do a direct transfer if he invoiced me directly (BIG mistake on my part). Immediately after payment, the seller 'claimed' the item was not available and would refund the money. I never received it. 

When I raised the dispute with ebay (sending copies of all emails and the "powerseller's" item advertised through ebay, ebay said it couldn't do anything about it because I didn't purchase the item through ebay - DESPITE finding it on ebay, and ebay facilitating the purchasing. That's false becaue I DID purchase it through ebay by Electronic Funds Transfer.

ebay refused to do anything but I know Amazon would have stepped in to help its loyal customers. Am I right in saying this? Should I transfer all my buying and selling to Amazon? Has anyone had the same thoughts recently?

[padi*0409]

Your mistake, as you've realised, was to use a payment method that gives you no buyer protection - and I doubt even Amazon would help you in that scenario either.

You could leave the seller a neg feedback (if possible) and see if that results in a refund. 

[enigmabear]

No Paypal means no buyer protection, be it a powers seller or a brand new seller

I doubt the other mob would do anything if they have the same policy in place

Not sure if I am reading correctly, you say the seller invoiced you directly ? was the invoice sent via ebay or only from the seller's email to your email?

[countessalmirena]

ktm690r, how did it "help" the seller by your asking to be invoiced directly?

Do you mean that you were assisting the seller to avoid eBay's Final Value Fees?

In that case, you were doing something specifically against eBay policy. I can't for the life of me see why you would do that! I also can't see what advantage there was to you in being invoiced directly. Furthermore, how could you trust someone who was happy to avoid legitimate selling fees? In addition, you haven't purchased a great deal on eBay (as I can see from your feedback score); your last purchase was over a year ago. With such a lack of experience of buying on eBay, why did you entrust your money to a person unknown to you, by offering to do a bank transfer, when you must surely know that there's no way to reverse the payment once you've made it? (And for such a large amount, too...)

Can you paste the item title by this seller here? (The exact wording.) Or "follow" the seller? I may then see what led you to believe that this seller was a "Powerseller" and what you call a "high rating".

Just to clarify - you didn't purchase on eBay unless you clicked onto or and then completed the purchase after you've clicked Go to Checkout. eBay address what you did under their Offers to buy or sell outside of eBay policy and their Avoiding eBay fees policy.

When a transaction that started out on eBay is completed outside of the eBay platform, the buyer and seller are no longer covered by eBay protection programs and the eBay Money Back Guarantee. As such, contacting another eBay member to discuss moving a purchase off eBay creates a risk of fraud, and is not permitted. Please see our full policy guidelines below for more details.

 ... and...

Not allowed

• Listing an item and then being paid outside of eBay
• Listing an item and then offering additional items for sale outside of eBay
• Offering related items for sale outside of eBay
• Including contact information within Best Offer, email messages or other communication with an eBay member

Familiarise yourself with eBay's Avoiding seller fraud page.

BUT... if you purchased from an Australian seller, there are things you can do.

Let's establish that first of all (that is, whether or not this was an Australian seller). Paste the item title here, and I'll find the seller concerned to see where he/she was registered. (Don't type the seller's username here, as such details are removed from posts by the moderators.)

[digital*ghost]

---

@ktm690r wrote:

ebay refused to do anything but I know Amazon would have stepped in to help its loyal customers. Am I right in saying this? Should I transfer all my buying and selling to Amazon? Has anyone had the same thoughts recently?

---

Amazon is not the antidote, or saving grace, for people disillusioned by eBay, and it's actually a dangerous thing to expect that they will just blindly do whatever a buyer thinks or says they should, you are far better off taking appropriate precautions no matter where you buy items, than thinking it's unnecessary because someone else will fix it up if something goes wrong - if you're interested in selling there, that is something to think about from the other perspective, too. I understand you've lost money, and I'm not trying to downplay the seriousness of that, nor am I just saying "too bad", what I am saying is that your point of view - because of that loss - is very subjective.

No matter what platform a seller is on, if you deposit cash directly into their bank account, the site will have no power to retrieve your funds, or force a reversal from the account - I would be very concerned if they did. It would be nice to see sellers face consequences when they pull a scam like this, but realistically it has to be provable beyond a shadow of a doubt, and bank deposit doesn't provide that to eBay - it's the kind of thing that needs to be pursued via other channels.

[countessalmirena]

(EDIT - So sorry, digital*ghost! This should be @ the OP.)

As digital*ghost says, the issue isn't with the site or platform on which you purchase; it's with your purchasing methods (paying in a responsible way).

I don't think that paying by bank deposit is ipso facto a dangerous thing to do. However, bank deposit payments should only ever be made if you are paying to -

• an established business that you trust (and about whom there are no worrying rumours that they may be in receivership soon - think about Dick Smith Electronics, for instance),
  
  
• a provider such as your gas, electricity, council rates, etc. (using BPAY for instance), or to airlines (QANTAS, Virgin, Emirates, Jetstar, for instance) using POLI,
  
  
• government bodies,
  
  
• charity organisations (when you're giving a donation and are sure that the funds in their entirety will go to the cause you specify),
  
  
• overseas government bodies, especially to German government bodies since the banking system there is quite different to Australia's and bank transfer (Überweisung) is by far the most commonly used method for paying bills, or
  
  
• overseas business (there are quite a few Spanish and Scandinavian publishers, for instance) who will only take payment by bank transfer.

You can pay by bank transfer if you're happy to trust the seller and the amount isn't a huge amount - or if you're simply happy to trust the seller. It's your decision...

Within an "honour system"  – for instance, if you're a book collector and a well-respected collector has offered you a once-in-a-lifetime rarity, a first-edition copy (printed 1477 in William Caxton's Westminster Abbey workshop) of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales – you might be willing to pay by bank transfer. (If I could afford such a work - Oh God! that I could afford it! I want it! - I would only pay after flying over to see the work in question and have it authenticated by experts; even though I know my stuff, I'd be a fool to trust just my own expertise for such an item.) If you could buy such a work, you could presumably afford both to pay the huge asking price and to fund any legal action if there was a problem. But it's more likely that such a rare item would be up for auction by Christie's or for sale by a rare book purveyor.

But buying from a seller whom you don't know, where you don't have the item before you (online purchase) and are trusting the seller to send the item that you purchased in the condition stated, etc., it's a risk to pay by bank transfer which leaves you without practical remedy. The site or platform can't help you. For very large amounts with clear demonstration of fraud from international seller, you can get international police involved - but even then, it might be tricky, even impossible, to recover your funds.

Just remember that you're trusting the seller when you pay. You reduce the risk by buying in a shop or from a business in Australia who must comply with Australian consumer legislation. If buying from overseas eBay sellers, for your own benefit you should avoid being foolishly trusting or allowing your buying method to be dictated by cupidity or whatever it may be.