sellers who withdraw listings after bids are taken

[08.lukey60]

When is eBay going to stop sellers withdrawing listings after bids have been taken. Once a bid has been taken a legal contract has been formed and should be adheared to by both parties. It seems this happens when seller gets bids lower than what they think item is worth. Sellers,  please respect you buyers, there what you survive on.

[nicegreenpetticoats]

It has been a while since I sold anything but I am pretty sure if a seller withdraws an item with bids they have to pay a small fee to do so.

It wouldn't pay to do it too often but if they are going to lose more than the fee it would be silly not to withdraw.

Ideally they should start with a minimum amount they would be happy to settle for at the auction end.

That's what I used to do.

Jenny

[*crikey*mate*]

Speaking as a qualified legal practitioner whose area of speciality is commercial law (mostly contract related in nature), I'm unsure of all the legal advice being offered by Backyard Barrister types on this thread.

Simple answer being, NO CONTRACT OR LEGAL CONVENANT EXISTS.

In laypersons terms..."too bad, so sad, suck it up, and stop being a sensitive sally"

Legal Disclaimer: The name Sally was utilised in a generalised setting of commentary for the purposes of this post. There being no intent to

defame any person living or deceased bearing the name Sally, or infer any person having the name Sally is sensitive.

Lastly, it's a well established legal fact the numerous policies, rules and regulations of eBay itself have little or no legal standing in Australia. That's not to say it may have some weight if brought before a Swiss court (eBay being registered as a Swiss business entity).

Accordingly, all the mumbo jumbo big brother tough guy talk of eBay means nothing for the most part here in Australia. If you are unsure of this fact please contact eBay Australia's legal representatives in Sydney (they are in the same building as me, next floor up).

Bottom line this eBay, a pretend online world for selling items, whereby Seller's can pretty much do as they please so long as they comply with appropriate State / Territory consumer protection statutes (where applicable)

hello 🙂

May I ask why no legal contract exists?

The 5 components for the formation of the contract are present. So we have offer, acceptance, intent, consideration and capacity - what more is required?

also, on the subject of disclaimers - I was under the impression that they meant diddly squat when presented AFTER the content to which they refer.

[*crikey*mate*]

PS - and what about the Common Law cases that have recently(ish) been bought before the courts concerning eBay? Please don't make me look them up, but at least 5 that I recall?

Undoubtedly, as you work in a legal office, you have access to all of the relevant databases, so maybe you could refresh my memory of those?

[2106greencat]

Why do so many want this to be a dead thread ?

Must be a reason, huh ?

As to sellers who do this -- I leave them a Neg.  Big Red NEG

Last seller who did this to me was reduced to 96.7 %

Thought they were smart, saying the item was 'no longer for sale' when I'd arranged my schedule in order to bid.  And when I'd beaten half a dozen competitors

Well, my time has value.  By refusing to sell once I'd bid and won the item, that seller had prevented me from buying one of several identical items

My opinion:  the seller didn't get the money they were expecting from the final, winning bidder who just happened to be me

And ebay screwed me too by allowing that seller to do it

Okay.  I sucked it up.  Seller thought they were smart.  Ebay thought they were smart too

Well, a big fat Neg and reduction to 96.7% doesn't sound too smart to me

And ebay missed out on FVF, so ebay doesn't sound very smart either

If sellers mess you around ---- Neg them.  Only way they'll learn

Not quite the same polocross.

The difference is YOU bid and you WON - the OP said the seller withdrew before the auction was complete. Can't leave feedback for that.

No winner - no transaction - no feedback.

I do agree with you though that a seller who does not honour the winning bid (as was in your situation)  that is wrong and even as a seller myself I would also award them with a BIG RED DOT!

Sorry dejavu - breathing more life into this thread :^O:-p

[*new2vintage]

Very naughty cat ! 😞

[2106greencat]

Heheeeheehee ]:)

I should be black not grey;-)

[fttot]

I've been following these posts with a degree of interest, sadly many of the posts have been removed so the context of what's been said is now lost.

Interestingly it appears the regular posters have gone all sooky and had a cry to ebay to have threads removed (because they were made to look not so smart), yet their own often nasty offensive posts are still present.

In NSW alone there is approximately 67 legislative devices (Acts & Regulations) administered by the Dept of Fair Trading (Consumer Affairs) in relation to contracts, treaties etc in regards to the sale or provision of goods and services....and that's just NSW.

Australia wide there are hundreds of different Acts & Regulations, so Blenheimsilver is on the money when he said "no contract exists" given the information contained the the original post started by 08.lukey60

There are so many variables...was it an auction, was it a BIN item, was the Seller a registered business or private seller, and the list goes on and on. If you don't know the information it's pretty hard to assess factually if a contract existed, but probably not. Also have you had a look at eBay's policies, if there was no breech of policy, then chances are there was no contract once again.

Also bear in mind that ebay is foreign owned and registered business, so once again, the laws of the host country upon which the business is registered would apply. As Blenheimsilver said, take it to a Swiss court.

As for some cases you mentioned are happening, you'd have to be more specific as to what State, name of Applicant, Plaintiff Respondent etc, what date (or year at least), was it Local, Magistrates or Supreme court or a Tribunal, was it a criminal or civil case...with over 5,000 cases being heard throughout Australia each week in courts and tribunals, unless you can provide some information upon which to base a search, then you are looking for a needle in a hay stack.

[*crikey*mate*]

umm, I was just asking questions to try and understand electronic auctions better from someone who is clearly qualified to comment.

2nd year law school. eh? Haven't done Legal Research I guess, but accessing databases such as Case Base and entering a few search terms such as eBay, auction etc will probably return a few results...

I wonder how most lawyers find supporting cases to refer to etc to establish case precedent to put forth an argument to the judge on how their particular case should be treated, if they are not aware of its existence? Maybe they know of every case in the whole world that has ever occurred since the beginning of time, eh? Or maybe they just use their Legal Research skills and access the databases available to them to search for them?

[blenheimsilver]

Crikey-Mate, go easy on the poor old legal student, our firm uses two commercial legal software packages and even then finding a case without any point of reference can drive you to despair.

Anyway, the case upon which you refer was heard in the NSW Supreme Court. It was a long time ago, perhaps 2007 or maybe 2008 from memory. This was a very clear cut case of breaching a legally binding contract under NSW statutes.

A pretty nasty dispute arose when an eBay member (Seller) refused to part company with an historical aircraft he sold via auction to the highest bidder. It was a bit of a pointless case as the Seller was always going to lose as the auction had "CONCLUDED" and the item not withdrawn from sale by the Seller prior to the auction ending. 

The only way the Seller could have got round the case was to have himself sectioned (mentally incapable), or if the item he auctioned didn't lawfully belong to him, or had no authority to dispose of without the owners consent.

The whole basis of argument (legal and otherwise) of this post related to an item being withdrawn from sale before the sale end date or auction end date. So I'll say again NO CONTRACT OR LEGAL CONVENANT EXISTS

[*crikey*mate*]

Thanks blenheimsilver, I forgot that this particular thread was about the transaction not being concluded *blushes* when I wrote that so I understand now why there was no contract..

And yes, I recall more of that case now, the plane was sold for $150,000 wasn't it? but in the meantime, the seller was offered much more than that elsewhere and sold to that person and it was ruled that the seller had entered into two contracts and was required to fulfill both, ie he had to source a second plane and supply it to the original price at the agreed upon cost regardless of what costs he incurred to procure it.

There was something similar about a Pepsi case as well (not eBay related - but a prize I think in a competition) but this was ruled as mere Puff (I think). I think that was about a plane as well?

But please tell me, what is the general consensus on Disclaimers - I actually even started a thread about this on CS a few weeks ago, so I am genuinely interested in that.