27 australians missing on downed malaysian flight

[viewmont1071]

http://www.thereporter.com.au/news/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-shot-down-over-ukrai/2322591/

DUTCH authorities have confirmed that 27 Australians were among the 295 on board the Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 which crashed overnight.

Anyone with concerns about friends or family, contact the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade on 1300 555 135

DFAT: 'Grave concerns' for Australians on board MH17

[the_great_she_elephant]

Oops sorry - hit a couple of wrong buttons there.

For me, the most telling thing is - as I've said before - that there has been no official statement from Russia accusing either America or the Ukrainian military. The closest Putin has come to offering an opinion is to say no-one should jump to conclusions and that ultimately Ukraine is to blame for starting the fighting. In view of what is being asserted in other European countries, the US and Australia, I find this a trifle odd.

[lionrose.7]

I have been thinking about those poor people in that Village.

How awful for them and their children to see this, I saw in early footage they had put Flowers and candles by the bodies.

Yes I think a memorial should be built there 😞

[icyfroth]

The most likely scenario is that it was mistakenly shot down by the pro-Russian seperatists,  the Russians are trying to save face, and the US is letting them, knowing that it happened to them once as well.

[***super_nova***]

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

For me, the most telling thing is - as I've said before - that there has been no official statement from Russia accusing either America or the Ukrainian military. The closest Putin has come to offering an opinion is to say no-one should jump to conclusions and that ultimately Ukraine is to blame for starting the fighting. In view of what is being asserted in other European countries, the US and Australia, I find this a trifle odd.

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It is not secret that Moscow supports the rebels, but he wants to distance himself as much a he can.  He is a very astute politician, he knows exactly when to say something and when not.

[fourandsixpants]

replying to sheelefant:

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sheelefant:

....The missile strike would have happened so suddenly....

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 paintsew:

There are/were reports that a jet fighter was seen.

Jet fighters do release CHAFF and FLARES to confuse any missiles aimed at them.

ref.sheelefant comment of :..... I believe there is an unconfirmed Russian report that a Ukrainian military plane was in the area at the time......

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paintsew: Your opinion that you agree(?) with this that it was a Ukrainian jet ?

IMO this jet was not Russian and not Ukrainian nor a rebel jet.

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sheelefant:

I haven't read the report, (that's why I said "I believe") so I am not able to offer an opinion (that's why I said "if this is true.")

If, in your opinion, the jet was not Russian, not Ukrainian  and did not belong to the rebels  (I understand the rebels do not have  any war  planes ) can we assumethat  you believe it to have been  an American plane?

From what I have heard - though perhaps you have more definite information -  the Russians are claiming 

it was a Ukrainian military plane. I can't help feeling that if they had the slightest suspicion it might have been a US plane they would be saying so.

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If you read Russian news you would read as many conflicting tales as one can find in our Australian, USA and European news media! Some blame pro Russians some blame the Ukrainians. A few Russian media sources do not suggest that it is the Ukrainians, nor rebels nor seperatists nor aliens from another planet for that matter.

The tv and i/net is abuzz with 'theories' and much misinformation - always done by the guilty party to divert attention and deliberately create confusion

....as for your 'feeling' and attempt to mind read the Russian authorities suspicions.....well! all I can say to this is that I would rather be accused of being a conspiracy nut job each time I put forward my (I admit they are sometimes challenging if we don't want to consider alternative ideas/opinion as we would have to confront several of our belief systems now wouldn't we?) than claiming to have fuzzy/prickly feelings about the Russians.

The only ones clearly accusing the Russians or the Ukrainians are reports coming out of the Western media sector.

The truth about this incident is all anyone asks for but patterns of revelation and purported facts to date have been misleading and deliberately untruthful.

[the_great_she_elephant]

Paints, I am talking about the OFFICIAL Russian position. Not speculation in the popular press.As far as I know he only OFFICIAL statements either by Vladimir Putin or someone speaking OFFICIALLY on his behalf, have been1) that Ukraine is ultimately to blame because they initiated the conflict and 2) that no-one should accuse anyone until the investigation is completed, and 3) that Russia would comply fully withany international investigation. 

Have you read anything other OFFICIAL stateents that I missed?

[raptor_rebooted]

as for your 'feeling' and attempt to mind read the Russian authorities suspicions

dont have to be a mind reader

to understand this:

The Defense Ministry of the Russian Federation released the following statement in connection with the crash of Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777.

"In view of the objective investigation of the air crash of the Boeing 777 that crashed on the territory of Ukraine, it is necessary to conduct thorough investigation with the involvement of representatives of all interested international organizations. According to the Russian Defense Ministry, there are units of the Ukrainian Armed Forces on the disaster area; the units are armed with anti-aircraft missile systems Buk-M1. In the area of northwestern outskirts of Donetsk, divisions of the 156th anti-aircraft missile regiment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are deployed, with 27 Buk M1 complexes. These complexes, on their tactical and technical characteristics, are capable of detecting air targets at distances of up to 160 kilometers and striking them at all altitudes at a range of over 30 kilometers. Moreover, in the skies over the Donetsk region, aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force equipped with different types of missiles are constantly present. This is an undeniable fact.

"Statements from official Kiev saying that those complexes or aircraft did not open fire on air targets raise serious doubts. In such a short period of time, making such unequivocal conclusions under the conditions of fierce fighting in the area is impossible. Such responsible statements that entail serious legal consequences, require full investigation.

"In connection with all sorts of insinuations concerning the actions of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation on the border regions of Ukraine, we herewith responsibly declare that:

"On July 17, air defense systems of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation were not working in the area.

"The aircraft of the Air Force of the Russia were not performing any sorties on July 17 in the regions bordering on the Donetsk region.

"This information is fully confirmed by means of objective control.

"One should pay attention to the fact that Boeing 777 was conducting the flight beyond the range of air defense systems of the Russian Federation. The aircraft was flying in the airspace of Ukraine, under the control of its air traffic management system.

"We urge the international community to conduct thorough investigation of the disaster."

[fourandsixpants]

source please?

[icyfroth]

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@*julia*2010 wrote:

as for your 'feeling' and attempt to mind read the Russian authorities suspicions

dont have to be a mind reader

to understand this:

The Defense Ministry of the Russian Federation released the following statement in connection with the crash of Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777.

"In view of the objective investigation of the air crash of the Boeing 777 that crashed on the territory of Ukraine, it is necessary to conduct thorough investigation with the involvement of representatives of all interested international organizations. According to the Russian Defense Ministry, there are units of the Ukrainian Armed Forces on the disaster area; the units are armed with anti-aircraft missile systems Buk-M1. In the area of northwestern outskirts of Donetsk, divisions of the 156th anti-aircraft missile regiment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are deployed, with 27 Buk M1 complexes. These complexes, on their tactical and technical characteristics, are capable of detecting air targets at distances of up to 160 kilometers and striking them at all altitudes at a range of over 30 kilometers. Moreover, in the skies over the Donetsk region, aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force equipped with different types of missiles are constantly present. This is an undeniable fact.

"Statements from official Kiev saying that those complexes or aircraft did not open fire on air targets raise serious doubts. In such a short period of time, making such unequivocal conclusions under the conditions of fierce fighting in the area is impossible. Such responsible statements that entail serious legal consequences, require full investigation.

"In connection with all sorts of insinuations concerning the actions of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation on the border regions of Ukraine, we herewith responsibly declare that:

"On July 17, air defense systems of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation were not working in the area.

"The aircraft of the Air Force of the Russia were not performing any sorties on July 17 in the regions bordering on the Donetsk region.

"This information is fully confirmed by means of objective control.

"One should pay attention to the fact that Boeing 777 was conducting the flight beyond the range of air defense systems of the Russian Federation. The aircraft was flying in the airspace of Ukraine, under the control of its air traffic management system.

"We urge the international community to conduct thorough investigation of the disaster."

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hmmm