Autralian hospitals

[*kazumi*]

I heard on TV the other day that hospitals are gearing up for the pandemic and are not seeing people for selective surgeries etc.  I was in the next room, so I was not sure if I misunderstood, and have not been able to find more about it.  Anybody heard anything?  I suppose to see a surgeon about my knee operation in couple of weeks. 

I will try to call them on Monday, but it is not easy to get through in the best of times.

[rogespeed]

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@domino-710 wrote:

May not be criminal - but could prove expensive.

The most prominent breach reported so far was the case of a man in Tasmania who went to work at a hotel in Hobart the day after he was told to isolate.

It prompted Tasmanian Health Minister Sarah Courtney to declare the Government was considering stronger compliance measures to reduce the risk of people spreading the virus.

Under section 42 of Tasmania's public health act, the maximum fine is $8,400.

That is much less than in other states.

In New South Wales, the state Health Department confirmed breaching an order to isolate carried a maximum penalty of $11,000.

Unlike Tasmania however, the penalty in New South Wales could also involve six months' imprisonment.

In South Australia, the maximum penalty for failing to comply is $25,000.

In Western Australia, those ignoring a public health order face imprisonment of 12 months or a fine of $50,000.

A Queensland Health spokesperson told the ABC all notices issued so far requested affected persons to "voluntarily" isolate themselves but a "handful" of people had had to be reminded of the responsibilities they had agreed to.

"While everyone so far has been cooperative, we are taking this seriously," they said.

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Well I stand corrected -  would be reassuring if there were ads on TV mentioning such things 

[*kazumi*]

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@davidc4430 wrote:

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what the PM didnt tell us was where hes going to find thousands of trained doctors and nurses ect to staff these places.

do we have lots of unemployed doctors and nurses ect just waiting for a call?

---

We have plenty of under employed doctors and nurses. My sister is a senior nurse who chooses to only work two days a week in her specialist field, but has extensive experience in emergency.  My GP only works around twenty hours per week as he is nearing retirement. There would be tens of thousands of other staff like these all around the country.

As mentioned the PM has called on all recently retired or permanently " on leave " medical staff to register on a central data ba

---

you making a lot of asumtions

that you know of a nuse who chooses to work 2 days a week so there must be plenty of them right?

who knows, it could be hardly any.

and then they cant be forced to work.

then there are the 'made the choice to take care of their kids'

so you expect women who have young children to go to work in an enviroment where they may catch a serious virus?

a lot of if and ands, i realise medical people will often put themselves at risk for others but to demand it?

not on sir!

---

And of course, once schools close there will be lot of nurses with primary school age children who will not be able to work, or only work when their spouse is at home.  Yet, closing schools is one of the most effective way to stop spreading this virus; kids are not going to be able to follow the "social distancing" rules.

[springyzone]

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@martinw-48 wrote:
Also where are thousands of ventilators going to magically appear.
In Italy people are dying in hospital because there's a hundred people that require a ventilator and they have twenty.
The same thing will happen here.
I'm watching Insiders right now and the Cheif medical officer and Greg Hunt are only offering words.
No proof of actual actions.
They keep stating it's only 249 cases but it takes two weeks to get sick.
It'll only go up and they keep saying if you fell well do whatever you want but your shedding the virus before you're sick

---

Hospitals and all emergency services, in fact many workplaces too, such as schools, do have action plans in place.

And they have regular drills on how to handle things.

There will have been behind the scenes discussions everywhere and plans put into place.

Some time this afternoon, all international travel is going to be banned (except for emergencies, essential business).

The situations are changing daily.

The cold, hard fact though is no, there probably won't be enough ventilators. How could there be? Places are stocked with what they need, very few places have 10 times the normal requirements in anything. That is exactly why the shops exploded yesterday. people realising they need much more than normal stocks.
But hospitals probably don't have the ability to obtain all the  ventilators, masks etc they need at the drop of a hat. They can't pick some up off the supermarket shelf. They can't get them from other countries as other places are in the same boat.

So if things get bad here, we are possibly going to see doctors making decisions on who to treat and who to leave, which is what is happening in italy.

That's why the government is working to contain the virus, slow down the transmission. Buy time.

Have they done enough? My bet is they are watching other countries. It's a learning experience, with conditions changing rapidly.

I know that in Canada (which is in a similar situation to us re number of cases etc) schools are already shut and people asked to isolate, not mix.

In an ideal world, the government could have stopped all travel in and out of this country many weeks ago and with us being an island, we would have zero cases. But economically and in practical terms, that just could not be done.

[rogespeed]

---

@*kazumi* wrote:

---

@davidc4430 wrote:

---

---

what the PM didnt tell us was where hes going to find thousands of trained doctors and nurses ect to staff these places.

do we have lots of unemployed doctors and nurses ect just waiting for a call?

---

We have plenty of under employed doctors and nurses. My sister is a senior nurse who chooses to only work two days a week in her specialist field, but has extensive experience in emergency.  My GP only works around twenty hours per week as he is nearing retirement. There would be tens of thousands of other staff like these all around the country.

As mentioned the PM has called on all recently retired or permanently " on leave " medical staff to register on a central data ba

---

you making a lot of asumtions

that you know of a nuse who chooses to work 2 days a week so there must be plenty of them right?

who knows, it could be hardly any.

and then they cant be forced to work.

then there are the 'made the choice to take care of their kids'

so you expect women who have young children to go to work in an enviroment where they may catch a serious virus?

a lot of if and ands, i realise medical people will often put themselves at risk for others but to demand it?

not on sir!

---

And of course, once schools close there will be lot of nurses with primary school age children who will not be able to work, or only work when their spouse is at home.  Yet, closing schools is one of the most effective way to stop spreading this virus; kids are not going to be able to follow the "social distancing" rules.

---

@*kazumi* wrote:

---

@davidc4430 wrote:

---

---

what the PM didnt tell us was where hes going to find thousands of trained doctors and nurses ect to staff these places.

do we have lots of unemployed doctors and nurses ect just waiting for a call?

---

We have plenty of under employed doctors and nurses. My sister is a senior nurse who chooses to only work two days a week in her specialist field, but has extensive experience in emergency.  My GP only works around twenty hours per week as he is nearing retirement. There would be tens of thousands of other staff like these all around the country.

As mentioned the PM has called on all recently retired or permanently " on leave " medical staff to register on a central data ba

---

you making a lot of asumtions

that you know of a nuse who chooses to work 2 days a week so there must be plenty of them right?

who knows, it could be hardly any.

and then they cant be forced to work.

then there are the 'made the choice to take care of their kids'

so you expect women who have young children to go to work in an enviroment where they may catch a serious virus?

a lot of if and ands, i realise medical people will often put themselves at risk for others but to demand it?

not on sir!

---

And of course, once schools close there will be lot of nurses with primary school age children who will not be able to work, or only work when their spouse is at home.  Yet, closing schools is one of the most effective way to stop spreading this virus; kids are not going to be able to follow the "social distancing" rules.

---

Those that are currently employed but can not attend their workplace due to Government mandate due to coronavirus should be considered on indefinite sick leave - paid for by worksafe .

[brerrabbit585]

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@chameleon54 wrote:

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@davidc4430 wrote:

---

@chameleon54 wrote:

---

@martinw-48 wrote:

---

what the PM didnt tell us was where hes going to find thousands of trained doctors and nurses ect to staff these places.

do we have lots of unemployed doctors and nurses ect just waiting for a call?

---

We have plenty of under employed doctors and nurses. My sister is a senior nurse who chooses to only work two days a week in her specialist field, but has extensive experience in emergency.  My GP only works around twenty hours per week as he is nearing retirement. There would be tens of thousands of other staff like these all around the country.

As mentioned the PM has called on all recently retired or permanently " on leave " medical staff to register on a central data base to be called upon should they be needed. He specifically mentioned staff who may have moved out of the medical profession for other life choices such as woman parenting kids. The government has also put in place measures to cancel all medical staff leave if required. Considering most medical staff have 4 - 6 weeks leave per year, this immediately increases staffing availability by 10%. Add in a much tighter and more demanding rostering system and you could very easily lift staffing by 30%-40%. More draconian measures could see higher levels achieved.

Farmers regularly work 16 hour shifts, seven days a week during seeding and harvest periods lasting 6 - 8 weeks ( similar to the peak of a pandemic ) without too many issues with fatigue etc. Much longer than that and fatigue DOES become an issue. At the peak of a pandemic, medical staff could be rostered extensively under a state of emergency, staffing the extra hospitals. Would they like it ? probably not, but in an extreme emergency, similar to war, the public would get behind and support them and it could it be done.

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There's a lot of difference between a farmer sitting on a tractor and a nurse or doctor being on their feet for long periods of time.  The doctors/nurses would be under a lot more stress as well, and that definitely adds to fatigue.  And are you assuming the medical staff won't ever get sick?

[imastawka]

---

@domino-710 wrote:

May not be criminal - but could prove expensive.

The most prominent breach reported so far was the case of a man in Tasmania who went to work at a hotel in Hobart the day after he was told to isolate.

It prompted Tasmanian Health Minister Sarah Courtney to declare the Government was considering stronger compliance measures to reduce the risk of people spreading the virus.

Under section 42 of Tasmania's public health act, the maximum fine is $8,400.

That is much less than in other states.

In New South Wales, the state Health Department confirmed breaching an order to isolate carried a maximum penalty of $11,000.

Unlike Tasmania however, the penalty in New South Wales could also involve six months' imprisonment.

In South Australia, the maximum penalty for failing to comply is $25,000.

In Western Australia, those ignoring a public health order face imprisonment of 12 months or a fine of $50,000.

A Queensland Health spokesperson told the ABC all notices issued so far requested affected persons to "voluntarily" isolate themselves but a "handful" of people had had to be reminded of the responsibilities they had agreed to.

"While everyone so far has been cooperative, we are taking this seriously," they said.

---

Wot.  No Victoria?

[rogespeed]

---

@springyzone wrote:

---

@martinw-48 wrote:
Also where are thousands of ventilators going to magically appear.
In Italy people are dying in hospital because there's a hundred people that require a ventilator and they have twenty.
The same thing will happen here.
I'm watching Insiders right now and the Cheif medical officer and Greg Hunt are only offering words.
No proof of actual actions.
They keep stating it's only 249 cases but it takes two weeks to get sick.
It'll only go up and they keep saying if you fell well do whatever you want but your shedding the virus before you're sick

---

Hospitals and all emergency services, in fact many workplaces too, such as schools, do have action plans in place.

And they have regular drills on how to handle things.

There will have been behind the scenes discussions everywhere and plans put into place.

Some time this afternoon, all international travel is going to be banned (except for emergencies, essential business).

The situations are changing daily.

The cold, hard fact though is no, there probably won't be enough ventilators. How could there be? Places are stocked with what they need, very few places have 10 times the normal requirements in anything. That is exactly why the shops exploded yesterday. people realising they need much more than normal stocks.
But hospitals probably don't have the ability to obtain all the  ventilators, masks etc they need at the drop of a hat. They can't pick some up off the supermarket shelf. They can't get them from other countries as other places are in the same boat.

So if things get bad here, we are possibly going to see doctors making decisions on who to treat and who to leave, which is what is happening in italy.

That's why the government is working to contain the virus, slow down the transmission. Buy time.

Have they done enough? My bet is they are watching other countries. It's a learning experience, with conditions changing rapidly.

I know that in Canada (which is in a similar situation to us re number of cases etc) schools are already shut and people asked to isolate, not mix.

In an ideal world, the government could have stopped all travel in and out of this country many weeks ago and with us being an island, we would have zero cases. But economically and in practical terms, that just could not be done.

---

Ventilators ? 

Supply is not a  problem and cheaper by the hundreds.... 

https://www.made-in-china.com/products-search/hot-china-products/Ventilator.html

Even a covid-19 spec model for enfants - interesting as babies did not factor much in the offical stats 

[domino-710]

Sorry - didn't notice Vic wasn't mentioned.

Nor was NT - I don't think.

[brerrabbit585]

---

@rogespeed wrote:

---

@domino-710 wrote:

May not be criminal - but could prove expensive.

The most prominent breach reported so far was the case of a man in Tasmania who went to work at a hotel in Hobart the day after he was told to isolate.

It prompted Tasmanian Health Minister Sarah Courtney to declare the Government was considering stronger compliance measures to reduce the risk of people spreading the virus.

Under section 42 of Tasmania's public health act, the maximum fine is $8,400.

That is much less than in other states.

In New South Wales, the state Health Department confirmed breaching an order to isolate carried a maximum penalty of $11,000.

Unlike Tasmania however, the penalty in New South Wales could also involve six months' imprisonment.

In South Australia, the maximum penalty for failing to comply is $25,000.

In Western Australia, those ignoring a public health order face imprisonment of 12 months or a fine of $50,000.

A Queensland Health spokesperson told the ABC all notices issued so far requested affected persons to "voluntarily" isolate themselves but a "handful" of people had had to be reminded of the responsibilities they had agreed to.

"While everyone so far has been cooperative, we are taking this seriously," they said.

---

Well I stand corrected -  would be reassuring if there were ads on TV mentioning such things 

---

If people thought they might get fined a lot just wouldn't bother getting tested unless they got really sick.  It'd stop the hypochondriacs wasting the doctors' time though.

[domino-710]

Interesting bit...................

The Commonwealth has the power to issue a "human biosecurity control order" under the biosecurity act.

If such an order is imposed, individuals who fail to comply face penalties of about $63,000, five years in prison, or both.

The order has never been used.