Banging on and on about rights.......

[poddster]

......under what "right" are people paid to exist without doing anything for their payment.?

Is it just because they exist?

[i-need-a-martini]

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@poddster wrote:

Do you tolerate the fact that a large percentage of recipients are ripping off the genuine needy persons ?

Is that acceptable to you?

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What is that large percentage you speak of?

And why are they ripping off the genuinely needy? The genuinely needy do get help. They aren't being ripped off.

[i-need-a-martini]

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@***super_nova*** wrote:

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@donnashuggy wrote:

I don't envy any person that lives off the system by choice, equally I don't envy anyone in genuine need for employment and cannot find work, I don't envy the sick or anyone that is getting welfare. Some people use services more than others - this will always be the case.

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Nothing is fair.  i have paid all my life myriad of insurance policies; house and contents, car, travel, medical, and I have never ever made a single claim.  It is not fair !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   I paid all that money, and I got nothing, while other people got $100s of thousands just because their house burned down; I bet it burned down because they were not careful enough.  Life is so unfair  😞   And I paid taxes all my life and never got the dole .............

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This is perfect analogy.

[the_great_she_elephant]

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@poddster wrote:

Glee, if a person has had never earned a dollar in their life but exist on welfare payments, how are they paying tax?

Go on say GST, but that GST payment has come from the welfare handout. Ciggie tax, booze tax. entertainment tax  petrol tax etc. all from the handout  those who do not earn by their own effort pay no even a brass razoo.

Care to debate that?

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Either people pay tax or they don't - which particular goods or services they pay it on is not relevant to the argument neither is how much or how little they have done to obtain the money with which to pay those taxes.

What your argument boils down to is that welfare recipients are not really paying tax because the money they are using to pay their taxes originally came from other taxpayers.

The flaw in that argument is that if welfare recipients are not really paying GST etc. then neither are nurses, teachers, policemen firemen, politicians, public servants or anyone whose salary is paid  by the Government. 

[poddster]

Ele, relevance to the argument is the fact that the tax paid in GST originated from a payment derived from an amount that was paid to the recipient out of tax collected from others.

[the_great_she_elephant]

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@poddster wrote:

Ele, relevance to the argument is the fact that the tax paid in GST originated from a payment derived from an amount that was paid to the recipient out of tax collected from others.

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And from where is the payment derived that is paid to nurses, teachers, politicians, etc?

[poddster]

Members of those groups are paid for their efforts and skills, bit questionabl about pollies though.

Do you think that a doctor, nurse, or teacher would continued to be paid if they refused to perform their duty? Again a question mark hangs over pollies

[the_great_she_elephant]

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@poddster wrote:

Members of those groups are paid for their efforts and skills, bit questionabl about pollies though.

Do you think that a doctor, nurse, or teacher would continued to be paid if they refused to perform their duty? Again a question mark hangs over pollies

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As I said before, people either pay tax or they don't. Whether or not they deserve the money with which they pay it is irrelevant.

A nurse is paid by the Government - if she buys  a bottle of champagne to celebrate her birthday she pays tax on it.

An Age  pensioner is paid by the Government  - if she buys a bottle of sherry to put in the  Christmas puddings she is making she pays tax on it.

A dole bludger is paid by the Government - if she buys a six pack to drink while she's sits in front of the telly instead of going out and looking for a job she pays tax on it.

They are all paid from the taxes paid by others. They have all bought booze, they have all paid GST on it.

If the GST paid by the nurse and the pensioner is real tax then so is the GST paid by the dole bludger.

If the GST paid by the dole bludger is not real tax then neither is the GST paid by the nurse and the pensioner.

[poddster]

The nurse and the pensioner have both contributed for their payments payments. The bludger has contributed SFA.

[the_great_she_elephant]

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@poddster wrote:

The nurse and the pensioner have both contributed for their payments payments. The bludger has contributed SFA.

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Which is quite true but completely irrelevant. If somebody wins Lotto and puts the money in the bank they can hardly be said to have contributed to the income they earn from the  interest - but the tax they pay on it is still tax. 

[poddster]

Their sheer luck was the contributor, and the fact that they are receiving a return on their investment is considered income, but you are well aware of all this of course.