on โ26-01-2013 08:53 AM
Following on from the breastfeeding thread, I thought this was an interesting viewpoint.
At 46, I think I am possibly of the last generation that threw their bikini tops off as soon as they got to the beach. I still do it now on a quiet beach much to the horror of my 35 year old sister who comes from a more conservative generation.
Growing up on a Sydney beach it was normal to see bare boobs in the 70's, 80's and very early 90's. But then suddenly we had a big attitude shift - women couldn't go topless and men couldn't wear speedos without attracting sniggers.
But the question is: if we are becoming more self conscious and conservative about our breasts, then isn't it to be expected that we will have more issues with complaints when women breastfeed in public?
THERE was a time when skin was tanned and love was free and bare breasts dotted the sand as far as the eye could see.
Jo Slinkard's were among them. ''You would go to beaches and everybody would be topless so you went topless, it was the fashion,'' she says. ''I'm a '70s girl, we didn't care about showing off.''
Slinkard, now 60 and a nurse manager, still enjoys getting her kit off. Her daughter Jacqueline Stone, 25, would never dream of shedding her teeny blue bikini on Dee Why beach, where barely a bared boob can be seen.
Stone says she has too much ''self-worth'' to expose her nipples. Slinkard reckons she's just shy. ''It's just one of those things that are taboo,'' says human resources student Ceci Vazquez, 20, watching the waves in a black bikini top and bright pink bottoms.
It's a similar sign of the times down Sydney's coastline. On Bondi's south end, where monokinis were once the rage, nary a nipple is on show. Tamarama boasts a bounty of man boobs but few of the female persuasion.
Tanning on the sand is Cara Petrovski, 19, who will wear nothing less than her strapless brown and blue bikini. ''I like that bit of mystery, it's like saving yourself,'' she says. ''If I was in a private place, chilling by a pool, that would be fine. For me it is a respect thing: respecting your body and respecting everyone else around you.''
Clotilde Lienhart, 23 and a Hillsong volunteer, is all but topless in her barely there bikini. But modesty stops her short. ''It's something about the nipple. I would feel vulnerable. People are watching and I don't want to be seen like that,'' she says. ''It's a private area, I guess.''
It's as if covered nipples are a new show of chastity, says Associate Professor Gail Hawkes, a sexuality expert at the University of New England. ''Maybe this is a form of protecting your virginity. You keep your nipple private for your lover not the public.''
There is growing ''uneasiness about the public display of breasts'', she says, on beaches and at public pools, where TV host David Koch reckons breastfeeding women should be ''more discreet and modest''.
The Australian Nudist Federation sees something sinister at play. ''When breasts go away from our beaches there is something wrong with our society,'' said federation president Greg, who asked we not publish his surname for fear of embarrassing his 19-year-old daughter.
''This is a litmus test of the modern sickness of the society we live in, that it's either not trusting or not safe or not confident.''
He blames the nipple no-show on US network television, in which nudity is rare.
The Waverley mayor, Sally Betts, who recalls going topless on beaches in the 1970s, says young women today are more conservative and conscious of skin cancer. And yet many still sunbake in bikinis. Or dress provocatively on Friday nights in the city.
''It's a complete paradox,'' says a 48-year-old topless high school teacher on Dee Why beach, who does not want to be named. ''They don't go topless but they will wear G-strings in a second.''
On Tamarama, wearing a snug blue-and-white string bikini, Kelsey Martin, 23, says many young women are too insecure to drop their tops. ''I think it's a beautiful thing to be free and to feel naked but in our culture there is such a pressure to be perfect or to look a certain way that I don't think girls feel free,'' she says.
''I think tanning topless is so about body image and the way you see yourself.
''Everyone is beautiful, but people don't think that.''
on โ26-01-2013 11:09 AM
Maybe the girls don't lke being perved at if they sunbathe topless at the beach. . I know the bikinis tops can be teeny tiny, but not quite the same exposure (!) as going topless.
on โ26-01-2013 11:23 AM
I think it has absolutely NOTHING to do with skin cancer and everything to do with Gen Y & X conservatism and sexualisation on a scale we have never seen before.
If you listen to the reasons the girls give in the article and in the video they don't talk about cancer or people perving on them. They are more concerned with their own private issues. In the second last line this girl sums it up by saying: 'I think tanning topless is so about body image and the way you see yourself.
They talk about feeling pressure to be perfect, respecting your body, respecting others around you. And they use words like taboo and vulnerable.
How sad.
on โ26-01-2013 11:35 AM
I think quite a number of women may have felt the same and still feel that way now Martini?
It's also sad that skin cancer isn't a concern despite all the money spent on raising awareness over the last ? what ...30ish years.
I don't understand the difference in your thinking between this issue and public breast feeding ?
on โ26-01-2013 12:08 PM
I don't understand the difference in your thinking between this issue and public breast feeding ?
As I kept saying over and over in the other thread I personally don't have an issue with breastfeeding. I agree with the laws. I agree that women should be able to breastfeed. But most of society (and increasingly so) is becoming less open to nakedness and I suspect that breastfeeding mothers will need to take this into consideration when breastfeeding more and more over the coming decade.
But I was (trying) to make 2 points in particular in the other thread:
firstly given that (rightly or wrongly) a bare breast makes people uncomfortable, then mums should be conscious of this when they feed in public. I suspect that any of the young girls interviewed in this article would feel uncomfortable faced with a bare breasted woman feeding.
and secondly, these same young women will be breastfeeding in a few years time. So how can a woman suddenly change her thinking from the breast being "private", "vulnerable", "immodest" etc to suddenly their breast is natural and good with a "what's your problem attitude" and expect the world around them to think the same at that GIVEN moment when they are faced with her breast?
If they aren't happy to bare their nipples at the beach for "respect to others" around them, then how come it suddenly becomes OK at breastfeeding time?
And again I will repeat I am not talking about the majority of women who breastfeed. I am talking about those mums who couldn't give a fig about what they display because IN THEIR EYES their breast have suddenly gone from sexual/private (as shown in the article) to natural/public.
Anyway, I think the article highlights a real issue with women in our society and the way they use/think about/discuss/display their bodies. It is very ambiguous and hypocritical. And while they do this, there will be media storms in a teacup like the one we saw for Bribie Island.
on โ26-01-2013 12:10 PM
Sorry - didn't realise that was such a long rant lol!
on โ26-01-2013 12:13 PM
I don't think you could be called prudish for not wanting to go topless if you're still wearing one of those barely there bikinis.. If the girls were being prudish, then they'd hardly go to the beach wearing a bikini would they? I think it's more to do with modesty and having respect for your body
I guess I'm a prude.. I won't go topless and I don't like wearing bikinis as I'm not quite comfortable with my body being on show.. I also burn really easily
on โ26-01-2013 12:14 PM
They talk about feeling pressure to be perfect, respecting your body, respecting others around you. And they use words like taboo and vulnerable.
I think it has absolutely NOTHING to do with skin cancer and everything to do with Gen Y & X conservatism and sexualisation on a scale we have never seen before.
This generation X'er thinks if the less the older generations negatively judge ALL of us the more comfortable and confident we all might feel ?
on โ26-01-2013 12:16 PM
This generation X'er thinks if the less the older generations negatively judge ALL of us the more comfortable and confident we all might feel ?
I don't understand your post iza - what do you mean?
on โ26-01-2013 12:20 PM
Martini,your desire for women to feel OK about being topless and your attitude and support of the negative attitude towards public breastfeeding contradict each other .I would think if you want women to feel OK about being topless you would also support public breastfeeding...what you are saying about going topless is this
They talk about feeling pressure to be perfect, respecting your body, respecting others around you. And they use words like taboo and vulnerable.
How sad.
The messages are so mixed?
on โ26-01-2013 12:22 PM
This generation X'er thinks if the less the older generations negatively judge ALL of us the more comfortable and confident we all might feel ?
I don't understand your post iza - what do you mean?
I'm a generation X'er.I have no desire to go topless.I am also aware of skin cancer.I support public breastfeeding.I am comfortable with my body and do not consider myself conservative for having no desire or need to go topless in public.