on 12-03-2020 09:49 AM
Coronavirus support package will see businesses get cash payments and tax relief to get them spending
oh, its a 'support package' not a 'stimulus package'
totally different then.
give money to welfare cheats? really?
i can think of at least 1 poster here who will not be a happy camper.
on 12-03-2020 11:25 PM
That's convoluted. It doesn't answer the question, but.
Nor address your previous statements about how the government handout should be used. Except that we all understand you want to use both of the government's teats, rather than working for a living.
13-03-2020 12:05 AM - edited 13-03-2020 12:09 AM
Bit of money to the poor is good, at least they will be able to stock up on the toilet paper too.
But seriously; this package will not keep the economy going, and if it will give incentive to people to go out more, it will only make the situation worse. According to the most recent studies people are most contagious before they show any symptoms, or in the first 8 days.
This is what an Italian pharmacist posted on a pharmacist char room:
" I am writing to you from Bergamo, Italy, at the heart of the coronavirus crisis. The news media in the US has not captured the severity of what is happening here. I am writing this post because each of you, today, not the government, not the school district, not the mayor, each individual citizen has the chance, today to take actions that will deter the Italian situation from becoming your own country’s reality. The only way to stop this virus is to limit contagion. And the only way to limit contagion is for millions of people to change their behavior today.
If you are in Europe or the US you are weeks away from where we are today in Italy.
I can hear you now. “It’s just a flu. It only affects old people with preconditions”
There are 2 reasons why Coronavirus has brought Italy to it’s knees. First it is a flu is devastating when people get really sick they need weeks of ICU – and, second, because of how fast and effectively it spreads. There is 2 week incubation period and many who have it never show symptoms.
When Prime Minister Conte announced last night that the entire country, 60 million people, would go on lock down, the line that struck me most was “there is no more time.” Because to be clear, this national lock down, is a hail mary. What he means is that if the numbers of contagion do not start to go down, the system, Italy, will collapse.
Why? Today the ICUs in Lombardy are at capacity – more than capacity. They have begun to put ICU units in the hallways. If the numbers do not go down, the growth rate of contagion tells us that there will be thousands of people who in a matter of a week? two weeks? who will need care. What will happen when there are 100, or a 1000 people who need the hospital and only a few ICU places left?
On Monday a doctor wrote in the paper that they have begun to have to decide who lives and who dies when the patients show up in the emergency room, like what is done in war. This will only get worse.
There are a finite number of drs, nurses, medical staff and they are getting the virus. They have also been working non-stop, non-stop for days and days. What happens when the drs, nurses and medical staff are simply not able to care for the patients, when they are not there?
And finally for those who say that this is just something that happens to old people, starting yesterday the hospitals are reporting that younger and younger patients – 40, 45, 18, are coming in for treatment.
You have a chance to make a difference and stop the spread in your country. Push for the entire office to work at home today, cancel birthday parties, and other gatherings, stay home as much as you can. If you have a fever, any fever, stay home. Push for school closures, now. Anything you can do to stop the spread, because it is spreading in your communities – there is a two week incubation period – and if you do these things now you can buy your medical system time.
And for those who say it is not possible to close the schools, and do all these other things, locking down Italy was beyond anyone’s imagination a week ago.
Soon you will not have a choice, so do what you can now."
on 13-03-2020 12:33 AM
@davewil1964 wrote:That's convoluted. It doesn't answer the question, but.
Nor address your previous statements about how the government handout should be used. Except that we all understand you want to use both of the government's teats, rather than working for a living.
Was employed last year ,,, seasonal work , am seeking new work which i have now but can not start until i get the requirements in order Is funded by myself so i am in transition from Newstart to sole trader- As for drawing Govt bonus from both streams , one is private , the other a business entity , so not directly privately accessible for private use , could have been used to assist purchase of equipment.- so not quite double dipping, just a positive help for one such as I, but anyhow the business bonus is for assisting in maintaining staff levels , a noble objective, but not for supporting a sole trader. I do not qualify ., happy ?
on 13-03-2020 01:03 AM
@*kazumi* wrote:Bit of money to the poor is good, at least they will be able to stock up on the toilet paper too.
But seriously; this package will not keep the economy going, and if it will give incentive to people to go out more, it will only make the situation worse. According to the most recent studies people are most contagious before they show any symptoms, or in the first 8 days.
This is what an Italian pharmacist posted on a pharmacist char room:" I am writing to you from Bergamo, Italy, at the heart of the coronavirus crisis. The news media in the US has not captured the severity of what is happening here. I am writing this post because each of you, today, not the government, not the school district, not the mayor, each individual citizen has the chance, today to take actions that will deter the Italian situation from becoming your own country’s reality. The only way to stop this virus is to limit contagion. And the only way to limit contagion is for millions of people to change their behavior today.
If you are in Europe or the US you are weeks away from where we are today in Italy.
I can hear you now. “It’s just a flu. It only affects old people with preconditions”
There are 2 reasons why Coronavirus has brought Italy to it’s knees. First it is a flu is devastating when people get really sick they need weeks of ICU – and, second, because of how fast and effectively it spreads. There is 2 week incubation period and many who have it never show symptoms.
When Prime Minister Conte announced last night that the entire country, 60 million people, would go on lock down, the line that struck me most was “there is no more time.” Because to be clear, this national lock down, is a hail mary. What he means is that if the numbers of contagion do not start to go down, the system, Italy, will collapse.
Why? Today the ICUs in Lombardy are at capacity – more than capacity. They have begun to put ICU units in the hallways. If the numbers do not go down, the growth rate of contagion tells us that there will be thousands of people who in a matter of a week? two weeks? who will need care. What will happen when there are 100, or a 1000 people who need the hospital and only a few ICU places left?
On Monday a doctor wrote in the paper that they have begun to have to decide who lives and who dies when the patients show up in the emergency room, like what is done in war. This will only get worse.
There are a finite number of drs, nurses, medical staff and they are getting the virus. They have also been working non-stop, non-stop for days and days. What happens when the drs, nurses and medical staff are simply not able to care for the patients, when they are not there?
And finally for those who say that this is just something that happens to old people, starting yesterday the hospitals are reporting that younger and younger patients – 40, 45, 18, are coming in for treatment.
You have a chance to make a difference and stop the spread in your country. Push for the entire office to work at home today, cancel birthday parties, and other gatherings, stay home as much as you can. If you have a fever, any fever, stay home. Push for school closures, now. Anything you can do to stop the spread, because it is spreading in your communities – there is a two week incubation period – and if you do these things now you can buy your medical system time.
And for those who say it is not possible to close the schools, and do all these other things, locking down Italy was beyond anyone’s imagination a week ago.
Soon you will not have a choice, so do what you can now."
Thanks for posting this information , sadly similar data was available about 4 weeks ago derived from the Chinese experience if one studied facts alluded to as well as published and also factoring in regional reporting characteristics . There seems to be a collective fixation on the published relatively low death rate rather than on the gross overburden of hospital admissions which is crippling economies unexpectedly.
on 13-03-2020 01:35 AM
Ye, and Iran is also in such situation. But it was easy to say that is because they are not like us. It will not take long for us to be in this situation. No country in the world will cope when it gets into this stage. We should stop all international travel and discourage domestic flights. Waiting until it gets worse is madness.
on 13-03-2020 11:06 AM
@*kazumi* wrote:Ye, and Iran is also in such situation. But it was easy to say that is because they are not like us. It will not take long for us to be in this situation. No country in the world will cope when it gets into this stage. We should stop all international travel and discourage domestic flights. Waiting until it gets worse is madness.
I agree is unwise allowing casual entry to Australia however for those with the means to pay and willing to submit to quarantine then such individuals should be welcomed - an Australian quarantine centre based in candidate countries would simplify the process , fully paid for by the hopeful. Processed in batches of jumbo jet passenger capacity. Upon clean certified, picked up by a dedicated jet having been transferred directly by sealed buses
Could work well in countires being over-run now and with no doubt the 1% ers eager to holiday elsewhere with many willing to take their chances in Australia
Is bad pr to absolutely ban people, as people hate being forced - granting the means to gain entry even if not financially viable for most individuals would stop feelings of ill-will
However we must get the virus totally banished. For us the fresh food chain could become a problem as is handled by people and the virus can be active for several days on some surfaces
on 13-03-2020 12:28 PM
LOL - sounds like a plan.
on 13-03-2020 03:47 PM
@domino-710 wrote:LOL - sounds like a plan.
Rather, the ramblings of a student of modern history
on 13-03-2020 03:53 PM
@rogespeed wrote:
@domino-710 wrote:LOL - sounds like a plan.
Rather, the ramblings of a student of modern history
I can only assume you are still a student.
on 13-03-2020 03:57 PM
@domino-710 wrote:
@rogespeed wrote:
@domino-710 wrote:LOL - sounds like a plan.
Rather, the ramblings of a student of modern history
I can only assume you are still a student.
Graduated enough to learn from history