Coronavirus update

[davidc4430]

Coronavirus update: Formula One Grand Prix called off, Trump announces travel ban, Tom Hanks tests positive

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-12/coronavirus-live-updates-mclaren-lewis-hamilton-travel-ban/12...

[davidc4430]

so allthough you can see whats wrong and want to tell everyone who will listen how to fix things, your not going to change anything YOU do because....

your claim is your allready underpaid for what you do?

your allready doing the heavy lifting?

its allways the ones who dont want to change their own little world who have all the answers for how everyone else should be doing it.

id have taken you far more seriously if you'd just said

'im as guilty as the next guy, taking as much as i can get for the littlest output.'

but no, your the guy thats keeping the county afloat whilst on starvation lane?

sorry bud, i dont buy your view

[go-tazz]

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@chameleon54 wrote:

Australia has one of the highest standards of living in the world, but we are relatively poor at producing anything of intrinsic value. This wealth is built on three things 

1) A sparsely populated, huge land with an abundance of natural resources ( wealth ) which is being distributed amongst an ever increasing population due to migration policies

But being sold of to foreign interest at an alarming rate as well.

2) Debt 

Due to ineffectual governments that continue to sell Aus and it's riches to overseas countries for a pittance

and allow the miming of resources for huge profits of which Aus again gets a pittance.

The biggest tax breaks or no tax is given to the richest who can afford the most is just an oxymoron.

3) selling out intellectual property, finest real estate property, water and mineral wealth to international buyers for a pittance.

Which has the raised property prices to prices that Aussies can no longer afford and the dream of owning a

house is now an impossible dream for a lot of families even if both work.

That is now going to have a huge impact as the rental market is huge and prices there have gone up to very

high levels were people were struggling to pay rent and it will now be impossible for people in the present

situation to pay those inflated prices.

Its simply unsustainable and I suspect the COVID 19 crisis which will result in mass unemployment may go some way to returning some balance, accelerating the fall in Australians long term living standards that was already occurring before the virus. Exemplified by stagnant wages at a time of relative employment stability.

It will/might cause a lot of homelessness as well as those out of work will no longer be able to afford the high

rents they were paying when they were employed.

Its unavoidable in the long term. Australia simply has to have a standard of living that reflects its productivity compared to others in the world. The longer we put it off by borrowing ever increasing amounts from overseas and selling the family silver to maintain our living standards, the harder the crash when it finally comes.

If it keeps going at this rate there will not be enough land and resources left in Aus and our standard of living

will start dropping at an alarming rate.

People can hide from the truth, hoping the endless gravy train of foreign and government money will continue forever.  But in the long term, like gravity, our living standards will have to fall back to earth. Its simply unavoidable. Covid 19 may well prove to be the essential initiator of the process.

---

Aus is simply living to high of the "hog" and that's a big problem as the higher end is only concerned with

increasing their income more and more and not "sharing" which keeps putting upward pressure on the ones

that they impact on.

Foreign buying and negative gearing in the housing sector has totally destroyed any semblance of reality and

pushed prices to a ludicrous level that will only be paid by foreign investors.

The Government must see it as a good thing as prices are being sustained but in reality it's totally destroying

the market and a big crash will have to happen in the future to bring that into line.

[chameleon54]

It doesn't matter what you or I think, Its simply inevitable.

If you can provide an answer as to how we maintain our existing extravagant living standards without continuing to borrow money and sell the family silver, please tell us. I would love to think there is a rational, reasonable, attainable, achievable way to keep living beyond our means forever, but I cant see it.

So please, give us an alternate, constructive, achievable solution. 

[chameleon54]

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@go-tazz wrote:

---

@chameleon54 wrote:

Australia has one of the highest standards of living in the world, but we are relatively poor at producing anything of intrinsic value. This wealth is built on three things 

1) A sparsely populated, huge land with an abundance of natural resources ( wealth ) which is being distributed amongst an ever increasing population due to migration policies

But being sold of to foreign interest at an alarming rate as well.

2) Debt 

Due to ineffectual governments that continue to sell Aus and it's riches to overseas countries for a pittance

and allow the miming of resources for huge profits of which Aus again gets a pittance.

The biggest tax breaks or no tax is given to the richest who can afford the most is just an oxymoron.

3) selling out intellectual property, finest real estate property, water and mineral wealth to international buyers for a pittance.

Which has the raised property prices to prices that Aussies can no longer afford and the dream of owning a

house is now an impossible dream for a lot of families even if both work.

That is now going to have a huge impact as the rental market is huge and prices there have gone up to very

high levels were people were struggling to pay rent and it will now be impossible for people in the present

situation to pay those inflated prices.

Its simply unsustainable and I suspect the COVID 19 crisis which will result in mass unemployment may go some way to returning some balance, accelerating the fall in Australians long term living standards that was already occurring before the virus. Exemplified by stagnant wages at a time of relative employment stability.

It will/might cause a lot of homelessness as well as those out of work will no longer be able to afford the high

rents they were paying when they were employed.

Its unavoidable in the long term. Australia simply has to have a standard of living that reflects its productivity compared to others in the world. The longer we put it off by borrowing ever increasing amounts from overseas and selling the family silver to maintain our living standards, the harder the crash when it finally comes.

If it keeps going at this rate there will not be enough land and resources left in Aus and our standard of living

will start dropping at an alarming rate.

People can hide from the truth, hoping the endless gravy train of foreign and government money will continue forever.  But in the long term, like gravity, our living standards will have to fall back to earth. Its simply unavoidable. Covid 19 may well prove to be the essential initiator of the process.

---

Aus is simply living to high of the "hog" and that's a big problem as the higher end is only concerned with

increasing their income more and more and not "sharing" which keeps putting upward pressure on the ones

that they impact on.

Foreign buying and negative gearing in the housing sector has totally destroyed any semblance of reality and

pushed prices to a ludicrous level that will only be paid by foreign investors.

The Government must see it as a good thing as prices are being sustained but in reality it's totally destroying

the market and a big crash will have to happen in the future to bring that into line.

---

One of the main reasons governments are allowing our assets to be sold off to foreign interests is that it is one of the last sources of income for Australia to maintain our current living standards. ie selling the family silver to pay for coffees and black SUV's. We simply don't produce enough any more to pay our own way. 

I suspect the other reason for allowing overseas interests to buy our assets is for security reasons. If we sell them our stuff cheap and have them living here amongst us, they are less likely to invade the country and take it by force.

[go-tazz]

---

@davidc4430 wrote:

so allthough you can see whats wrong and want to tell everyone who will listen how to fix things, your not going to change anything YOU do because....

your claim is your allready underpaid for what you do?

your allready doing the heavy lifting?

It doesn't matter what Cham does as it will have no impact on the Aussie way of life as that's impacted by the

Government and the ones that are stripping the country for themselves only.

its allways the ones who dont want to change their own little world who have all the answers for how everyone else should be doing it.

Trying to make a living and being able to do that in a fashion that's sustainable was always the Aussie way of

life but it's now frowned upon by others that have no idea how hard that life can be.

id have taken you far more seriously if you'd just said

'im as guilty as the next guy, taking as much as i can get for the littlest output.'

If you have no idea on what it takes to run a business that can be sustained it may be best if you said

nothing at all as obviously you have no idea in this instance.

but no, your the guy thats keeping the county afloat whilst on starvation lane?

No,he's keeping himself afloat and has built a business so he can survive in this ever changing country

where others will perish.

sorry bud, i dont buy your view

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The view is yours even if it's totally wrong.

[davidc4430]

i dont have any answers and i wouldnt put forward a view unless i was willing to take on the path to enlightenment myself up front

i just dislike those who tell us 'heres where its all gone wrong and to fix it all of YOU need to do XY&Z

but not me, i dont need to do anything'

its not about running a business whch is of course hard work.

its about the 'blame game'

there are allways those who want to blame one group or another for what they see as the problem.

'people on the assembly line killed the car industry because they wanted to be paid more than i think they should'

'people in the textile industry killed the industry for wanting to be paid more than i think they should'

ect ect ect

i dont know the future, prolly not unlike it was before.

but it will take a long time to get there i rekon.

maybe there will be another pandemic in 12 months?

or another GFC?

or both.

will we still be arguing with this then?

[myoclon1cjerk]

May I just bring up a sentence that saturated the media when Rudd introduced his stimulus package during the GFC.
" Our grandchildren will be paying this off"
I'm waiting for the Murdoch press to splash that all over the front page.

[chameleon54]

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@davidc4430 wrote:

i dont have any answers and i wouldnt put forward a view unless i was willing to take on the path to enlightenment myself up front

i just dislike those who tell us 'heres where its all gone wrong and to fix it all of YOU need to do XY&Z

but not me, i dont need to do anything'

Please explain how I,m not already " doing it "

I dont farm for the money, I do it for the lifestyle and independence. I only make a small fraction of the average national income. My car is a modest 12 year old 4 door, 4 cylinder sedan, My house is valued at 35% less than the average for our area, I havnt had a real holiday for fourteen years ( except 4 days in the city earlier this year ) and my clothes and boots have holes in them. Frankly I just dont care about the shiney materialistic stuff. Its not important to me. I enjoy my lifestyle, not stuff.

its not about running a business whch is of course hard work.

its about the 'blame game'

there are allways those who want to blame one group or another for what they see as the problem.

 What if one group is to blame ? Shouldnt we point it out. I seem to see an awful lot of blaming going on towards the LNP Government and profit orientated business owners. But thats OK because its not " my group " so we can blame them.....

'people on the assembly line killed the car industry because they wanted to be paid more than i think they should'

True, so why arnt we allowed to point it out ? And its not what I think they should be paid, its simply expecting / demanding to be paid more than others doing exactly the same job elsewhere.

'people in the textile industry killed the industry for wanting to be paid more than i think they should'

ect ect ect

Again, thats exactly the same problem except, its not what I think they should be paid. Its just that they wanted to be paid much more than similar workers in other countries.

Its a bit like ebay. You can ask twice as much as everyone else for a book you have for sale, but no-one will buy it becuase you are being greedy and unrealistic.

i dont know the future, prolly not unlike it was before.

but it will take a long time to get there i rekon.

maybe there will be another pandemic in 12 months?

or another GFC?

or both.

will we still be arguing with this then?

Nope - becuase what we think wont make any difference. Masses of people around the world will become unemployed regardless of what we think and those willing to accept the lowest wages will get the jobs while those who think they are more valuable than everyone else, just because of the country they where born in will be left behind, unemployed in a stagnating economy !

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[not_for_sale]

One thing I've noticed since this outbreak began is the number of people who criticize the Goverment's actions after they are carried out. This includes politicians, journalists, broadcasters and so called experts. But virtually nobody who criticizes the Government's plans for tomorrow or next week offers an alternative strategy or plan. They don't contribute anything, except criticism, which is divisive and unhelpful. I would have far more respect if just one of these people offered an intelligent suggestion for today or tomorrow, rather than what the Government should have done last week.

[go-tazz]

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@davidc4430 wrote:

i dont have any answers and i wouldnt put forward a view unless i was willing to take on the path to enlightenment myself up front

So basically you want to bury your head in the sand and if anyone comes forward with their view you want to

lampoon that view as it doesn't fit your agenda or it's not what you would do?

i just dislike those who tell us 'heres where its all gone wrong and to fix it all of YOU need to do XY&Z

but not me, i dont need to do anything'

They are not "telling" you they are merely stating their opinion as to where it has gone wrong.

You can't do anything as the problem lies with the Government/s that have destroyed Aus and it's resources

over time and those resources are going to run out at some stage and there is nothing to back that up.

there are allways those who want to blame one group or another for what they see as the problem.

Two thirds of our gold reserves where sold for a pittance by Costello and with his leader Howard in place

the rich became richer due to tax and policy changes and that's not a policy that benefits the majority of

Australians and is detrimental to this countries survival.

As stated above when there is a big problem then there is a reason for that problem.

i dont know the future, prolly not unlike it was before.

but it will take a long time to get there i rekon.

It may be but not likely as businesses and people wont survive this pandemic and it will take 50,60 or more

years to pay of the debt that Australia will have by the time we can get back to some sort of normality.

maybe there will be another pandemic in 12 months?

or another GFC?

or both.

will we still be arguing with this then?

---

They are opinion and would only be seen as arguments if someone wants them to be one.