Coronavirus update

[davidc4430]

Coronavirus update: Formula One Grand Prix called off, Trump announces travel ban, Tom Hanks tests positive

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-12/coronavirus-live-updates-mclaren-lewis-hamilton-travel-ban/12...

[debra9275]

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@chameleon54 wrote:

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@domino-710 wrote:

Interesting idea.

Hello - Victoria has taken the brunt - suffered the consequences of their borders.

Surely Steve can step up - close his for his people.

Keep it where it is - confine it - erradicate it.

Take the hit of the costs as has Victoria.

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I suspect its not as simple as all that. Border closures fall under constitutional law. States have been able to close borders to protect residents based on pandemic laws, state of emergency laws etc established as part of our constitutional legislation ( and there is already questions about the legality of that )

. To simply close a border to prevent uninfected residents leaving would be tantamount to a police state. While some people may support police state rules, I suspect the majority including lefty constitutional lawyers and citizen rights organisations might have a fair bit to say over it. ( and I would agree with them )

It all gets back to Dan Andrews stepping up and following the lead of other states to protect Victorians. If the Victorian Premier is incompetent and too slow to act you cant blame everyone else for the consequences. 

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we have never had our borders closed.. so i guess that means we're not a police state

btw... NSW also has an open border with SA.... does that mean the NSW Govt. is also incompetent??

[chameleon54]

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@domino-710 wrote:

Why don't you SA's protect others.

Police state - my A$$$$se - Victoria - shouldn't have to close her borders to protect herself from you.

You should be doing it to protect not only your own - but others.

Always two sides to a coin.

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Frankly your assertion is quite ridiculous. Under your rules you should have been jumping up and down for months, demanding Dan Andrews close his borders to other states to keep the infection in Vic But no, not a peep on that front.

The responsibility rested with other state jurisdictions to protect their own citizens. Why is Victoria any different ? ( Oh that's right, Dan Andrews is too incompetent to do it so you are begging South Australia's Liberal Government to save you )  

And you haven't addressed the issue of constitutional law. While states can arguably close borders to protect their citizens from an external pandemic, they simply cant close borders and prevent uninfected people leaving. 

Grow up and start accepting responsibility for your own affairs like every other state does. Blaming everyone else for your state Premiers failures just isn't going to cut it.  Frankly your last post is one of the most nonsensical you have ever posted here and shows you have absolutuely no comprehension. of even the most basic elements of our citizen rights and constitutional law.

[chameleon54]

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@debra9275 wrote:

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@chameleon54 wrote:

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@domino-710 wrote:

Interesting idea.

Hello - Victoria has taken the brunt - suffered the consequences of their borders.

Surely Steve can step up - close his for his people.

Keep it where it is - confine it - erradicate it.

Take the hit of the costs as has Victoria.

---

I suspect its not as simple as all that. Border closures fall under constitutional law. States have been able to close borders to protect residents based on pandemic laws, state of emergency laws etc established as part of our constitutional legislation ( and there is already questions about the legality of that )

. To simply close a border to prevent uninfected residents leaving would be tantamount to a police state. While some people may support police state rules, I suspect the majority including lefty constitutional lawyers and citizen rights organisations might have a fair bit to say over it. ( and I would agree with them )

It all gets back to Dan Andrews stepping up and following the lead of other states to protect Victorians. If the Victorian Premier is incompetent and too slow to act you cant blame everyone else for the consequences. 

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we have never had our borders closed.. so i guess that means we're not a police state

btw... NSW also has an open border with SA.... does that mean the NSW Govt. is also incompetent??

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No it means the N.S.W. government has adopted a strategy of living with low levels of COVID in their community most of the time. They have shown they have the systems, skills and expertise to manage these low levels without shutting the whole state down. 

Victoria on the other hand went to hell and back to adopt an eradication strategy. The cost was very high, but eventually it got there. It has only been a few weeks though which makes it so unsettling that the Victorian government is willing to risk all of that pain, suffering and financial damage by allowing an open border with a state that is currently experiencing a serious outbreak. . 

Unlike most on these forums, Ive got a foot in both camps. I understand first hand the hardships Victorians have endured ( there is actually more to my exposure to Victoria than I have noted in forum posts ) and I simply don't want to see it repeated when its not necessary. Is that so unreasonable ?

[davewil1964]

While states can arguably close borders to protect their citizens from an external pandemic, they simply cant close borders and prevent uninfected people leaving. 

I believe that is what the Victorian government did with their 5km limit and 'ring of steel'. Did you miss that bit? Governments have a lot of extra-judicial powers when they declare emergencies.

[debra9275]

IN Victoria. we have been able to manage small outbreaks such as the Chadstone outbreak, which led to outbreaks in Kilmore, Benalla and Shepparton due to a truck driver.. also the outbreak at Box Hill hospital.. these outbreaks were of similar size to the current Adelaide outbreak.They are all under control and, managed with contact tracing and we've had 18 days with zero cases. so i wouldn't be calling any state Govt incompetant...  they are all doing the best they can for their citizens

to suggest that we live in a police state because we had to go into a hard lockdown to combat a large outbreak of the the virus is just ridiculous. no-one enjoyed doing it... the state Govt didn't enjoy doing it. we knew what we had to do and we knew why we were doing it. We.ve not yet seen another state deal with as large a community spread as ours was

[chameleon54]

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@davewil1964 wrote:

While states can arguably close borders to protect their citizens from an external pandemic, they simply cant close borders and prevent uninfected people leaving. 

I believe that is what the Victorian government did with their 5km limit and 'ring of steel'. Did you miss that bit? Governments have a lot of extra-judicial powers when they declare emergencies.

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Technically you are correct but those powers can only be implemented once a full blown State of Emergency has been declared. If you read up on your constitutional law, you will find a State of Emergency over rides and takes precedence over most state laws including those relating to human rights and civil liberty.

As far as I,m aware, the South Australian Government has not declared a state of Emergency for this latest flare up and so can not enforce the measures you suggest. A State of Emergency is not something governments do lightly as it has very major legal ramifications. It is nonsensical to suggest South Australia should declare one just to protect Victorians from their governments inaction.

[chameleon54]

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@debra9275 wrote:

IN Victoria. we have been able to manage small outbreaks such as the Chadstone outbreak, which led to outbreaks in Kilmore, Benalla and Shepparton due to a truck driver.. also the outbreak at Box Hill hospital.. these outbreaks were of similar size to the current Adelaide outbreak.They are all under control and, managed with contact tracing and we've had 18 days with zero cases. so i wouldn't be calling any state Govt incompetant...  they are all doing the best they can for their citizens

to suggest that we live in a police state because we had to go into a hard lockdown to combat a large outbreak of the the virus is just ridiculous. no-one enjoyed doing it... the state Govt didn't enjoy doing it. we knew what we had to do and we knew why we were doing it. We.ve not yet seen another state deal with as large a community spread as ours was

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Fair points, so here's a direct question for you and other Victorian posters.

Would you like to see Dan Andrews implement border controls to stop possibly infected South Australians from entering your state, until such time as South Australia has again eradicated the virus ?

As Bob says.......GO !

[davewil1964]

One of us is spouting nonsense, that's for sure.

It might pay you to read up on Health emergencies, for eg. Which the entire country has declared. Thus empowering them to do what it takes to protect citizens. Like Victoria did, and SA seems reluctant to do.

Of course YOUR Premier can do no wrong, and Andrews can do no right.

[chameleon54]

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@davewil1964 wrote:

One of us is spouting nonsense, that's for sure.

It might pay you to read up on Health emergencies, for eg. Which the entire country has declared. Thus empowering them to do what it takes to protect citizens. Like Victoria did, and SA seems reluctant to do.

Of course YOUR Premier can do no wrong, and Andrews can do no right.

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Once again you are partially correct, but your own post identifies the gaping hole in your argument. It gives governments some powers to take actions which protect their own citizens. South Australia does not have any Jurisdiction over Victoria so cannot enact directives aimed at protecting Victorian citizens. That responsibility rests with the Victorian Government.

And again, these powers do have limitations. The only legislation which gives State Governments very wide ranging powers to over ride Human Rights and Civil Liberty legislation ( such as those used in Victoria ) is to declare a State of Emergency. Because of the extreme nature of these powers, States of Emergency are not declared for relatively minor, manageable incidents....

[chameleon54]

South Australia setting " The Gold Standard " Proffesor Jodie McVernon is interviewed on 7.30 Report about South Australia's response to the current outbreak.

https://www.abc.net.au/7.30/professor-jodie-mcvernon-discusses-the-covid/12893330?nw=0