Discussion that challenges supposed mainstream beliefs and officially accepted stances

[4channel]

Some issues when discussed can cause a range of reactions. Sometimes they can lead to an awakening, the beginning of a journey to discovering something new, or they can can cause a certain type of reaction in a person who may not like what they hear. I think that it's all about how we choose to deal with the info we're hearing and how we process it.

Take the issues of let's say ....  fluoride and mobile phone tower radiation. The government has allowed the fluoridation of our water and they have allowed the construction of mobile phone towers in residential areas. Does that mean the water is safe to drink and it causes no ill affect? Does that mean that the mobile phone towers are safe?  What about the handsets. Are they safe for children to use and hold against their heads?

Well, we discuss these things and some people do react angrily to the people discussing these issues. Does this mean that we have to stop discussion that challenges the supposed official stance or challenges what we are told is the mainstream belief? Do we have to self-censor or have this in a [private group? I have noticed that in discussion forums or the media that racist beliefs are a;allowed a platform and yet issues that many folk feel that need to be addressed because of health concerns are not given the same platform. To me racism is abhorrent and yet in the media, it gets the pass ticket while issues that some call important to health freedom do not! Why is that?  Could it be political? What are your thoughts?

NOTE:

Spoiler

This is a discussion that some people here would be interested in while others may not be. Folks with opposing views are welcome as  always. Please, if someone has an issue with these topics being discussed or another member, could they refrain from any attacks on others or deliberately flooding this thread with off topic filler.

[4channel]

Well thank goodness that they stopped putting mercury in vaccines 19 years ago.  Thanks for mentioning that it is only used in Flu shots. I remember some time back there were parents accused of shaking their babies but vaccinations back then could have been contributing to Shaken Baby Syndrome .

Well, knowing that the toxin is still in Influenza vaccines, I'll stay clear of that and look after my system with better nutrition, vitamin C and one or two other things.  Too many people I know of have become sick after the flu shot and seem to have issues ongoing. I hope that toddlers under 3 years aren't getting it.

With aluminium, what occurs naturally is what our bodies are designed to handle. Putting it in vaccines by-passes the digestive process and there's more chance of it compromising the Blood Brain Barrier.

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Review

. Spring 1989;13(1):47-53.

doi: 10.1016/s0149-7634(89)80051-x.

Aluminum-induced neurotoxicity: alterations in membrane function at the blood-brain barrier

W A Banks  1 , A J Kastin

Abstract

Aluminum is established as a neurotoxin, although the basis for its toxicity is unknown. It recently has been shown to alter the function of the blood-brain barrier (BBB), which regulates exchanges between the central nervous system (CNS) and peripheral circulation. The BBB owes its unique properties to the integrity of the cell membranes that comprise it. Aluminum affects some of the membrane-like functions of the BBB. It increases the rate of transmembrane diffusion and selectively changes saturable transport systems without disrupting the integrity of the membranes or altering CNS hemodynamics. Such alterations in the access to the brain of nutrients, hormones, toxins, and drugs could be the basis of CNS dysfunction. Aluminum is capable of altering membrane function at the BBB; many of its effects on the CNS as well as peripheral tissues can be explained by its actions as a membrane toxin.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2671833/

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I do know that when Aluminium combines with something like Fluoride, it can become more of a problem.

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FLUORIDE COMBINES WITH ALUMINIUM IN DRINKING WATER. NEW STUDY SHOWS GRAVE IMPLICATIONS FROM INTERACTION OF ALUMINUM AND LOW DOSE FLUORIDE

Promoters of fluoridation can no longer get away with the "unequivocal statement" that fluoride is a "free ion" in water", OR that "it completely dissociates and doesn't react with other minerals in drinking water."

Following the Varner, et al aluminium fluoride studies in which 80% of the experimental rats died before the end of the experiment the United States Environmental Protection Agency was sufficiently alarmed to push the National Toxicology Program (NTP) to do further research.

Varner and associates appear to have found TOXIC SYNERGISTIC ACTION between FLUORIDE and ALUMINIUM in drinking water. This has now been made a part of PUBLIC RECORD in the US FEDERAL REGISTER as of December 4, 2000.

The National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences (NIEHS) concurs with the EPA and has formally called for NTP to commission studies.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?

For the first time, synergistic action is officially acknowledged, along with the fact that FLUORIDE in the water COMBINES WITH OTHER MINERALS.

The National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences has commissioned a Review of Toxicological Literature on Aluminium Compounds.

https://www.actionpa.org/fluoride/aluminum.html

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I know that formaldehyde is put into vaccines as well. Apparently it causes issues.

Our bodies are designed by God or Nature (which ever you believe) and we interact with the environment and elements for which we are designed.  Additional things put in our bodies via the blood stream or even orally can push the levels of whatever occurs naturally past tolerance. Some of these additional things are not even naturally occurring and in the case of direct insertion into the blood stream, they bypass a digestive system which is also a protection stage. This can lead to problems.

At the end of the day, it's obvious that something is going on when a healthy bright child goes in for a vaccination and then afterwards is not the same little person. To accept this as "The New Normal" without questioning things is almost like buying a car from a car dealer and the engine blows up the following week and a person telling themselves ...... "Ahhh this is just the way things are".

[domino-710]

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• VEGetariANism, meat production, food safety

[lalbo-81]

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@chameleon54 wrote:

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@4channel wrote:

There is discomfort felt by some people when discussing issues such as Fluoride, GM crops, mobile phone radiation. It sometimes makes them more uncomfortable than the freedom to chose vaccination issue which can get some folk quite emotional. I think possibly because with Fluoride, GM crops, mobile phone radiation, the government has largely ignored the voices of the people on those three and just allowed them to be pushed out. Many folks would like to think the gov't is in their corner, looking after them.

So the discussion that challenges supposed mainstream beliefs and officially accepted stances can possibly make some people go mute. Or it can make them react defensively. Is that possible?

Working a 9 to 5 job,  taking care of life's business,  it's better and easier to deal with life by being in the comfort zone and pretending .......  that ..... everything .... is ....  OK.

Is it?

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The vaccine issue is one I retain a little question mark with. My wife is blind due to being one of the last babies born before the Rubella vaccination programme in schools really became established, so I have some skin in the game so as to speak. Covid has also shown us how important vaccines can be when a disease or virus gets going.

I haven't actually looked deeply into the claims of the anti vaxers, but I suspect there has been an increased prevalence in Autism in our modern society. It seems to be a very common occurrence compared to the past. The experts claim this is because of better diagnosis, but thats could be an easy out in a cover up.

So is the anti- vaxers claims that vaccination causes autism correct ( something is causing it ) and if so which vaccine in particular ?   I could well imagine the medical profession and government's could close ranks on this issue, purely because vaccination saves so many lives when weighed against a few people suffering autism. It could be the same as governments, big pharma and the medical profession closing ranks to hide the risks of using statins due to the lives saved from heart disease outweighing the cost of a few people suffering severe reactions to the medication.

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Absolutely not. There is no vaccine that causes autism and there never has been. Autism is an imbalance in the brain, much like bipolarity, also not caused by any vaccine. Both mental imbalances existed long before any vaccine ever did. The fact that more cases are diagnosed as such is purely because scientists have learned how to test for it at earlier ages. I'm grateful for that, and the same goes for any form of imbalance that is on the autism spectrum. My youngest deals with Asperger's syndrome, I'm grateful that he was diagnosed at age 12. My brother also dealt with being"an Aspie", but he wasn't properly diagnosed until he was in his late 30's. His life was hell for many years before that.He didn't receive any kind of vaccination during his school years, and my son did. No difference in their behavior. 

[not_for_sale2024]

One of the key studies which led to the current rubbish linking vaccines to autism was in 1998 by Wakefield. The study underwent inspection and was retracted, and the provider’s medical license was taken away due to falsified information.

Linking vaccines to autism is insulting to all people with the condition and only confirms how little their understanding of these people is.

[davewil1964]

I'm fairly sure you're right.

My sister insists I have Asperger's because I exhibit SOME of the traits her Asperger's son does.

Not realising that age tends to do that. She doesn't entertain the idea that she might be, but blames it on age and habit.

The scope and testing for disability, especially mentally-based has certainly expanded in the time since it would have made a difference to us.

Admittedly, I was vaccinated as a child. Smallpox, Polio, whatever I had to have to transit Asia on the way from Australia to the UK in the early 60s.

The good thing is I won't get smallpox if/when any of the many countries keeping stockpiles of it decide to release it.

[not_for_sale2024]

I worked very closely with a Psychiatrist who was an international expert on Asperger and ASD. I learned a great deal from him, unfortunately he is gone now.

A problem with a lot of people who don't understand somebody is they are eager to diagnose. But they are sometimes guided by the wrong information and/or conspiracy theories. How many times have we convinced ourselves that we have some condition because we checked our signs and symptoms on the internet. We later see a doctor and find out that we were wrong - amateurs after all. Yet some people need to believe there must be something other than medical science to provide the explanations. BTW, this is a big belief held by Scientologists!

[chameleon54]

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@not_for_sale2024 wrote:

One of the key studies which led to the current rubbish linking vaccines to autism was in 1998 by Wakefield. The study underwent inspection and was retracted, and the provider’s medical license was taken away due to falsified information.

Linking vaccines to autism is insulting to all people with the condition and only confirms how little their understanding of these people is.

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I,m not sure how you make that link. Babies didn't have a say in whether they where vaccinated and I would say all parents ( including me ) vaccinate their kids on the understanding they are just trying to protect them from very severe diseases.

All my post questioned was why there has been a dramatic increase in Autism in the last few decades. The official figures confirm it is escalating. It may simply be because of changes in diagnostic procedures, but it may also be because it is much more prevalent now. From my very modest uneducated view, it simply seems there are more people visibly affected by the condition now than in the past.

Growing up in a small town of 350 children, I only knew of one child with autism. Now I know of quite a few in a similar sample size. My extended family is not immune from the condition, so I have an interest in why it is occurring more now than in the past. Nothing insulting in any of that. 

[not_for_sale2024]

If you look closely chameleon54 you'll see that I wasn't talking to you.

[lalbo-81]

I appreciate your comments, and Dave's. I think you have a good grasp on the subject and you're both educating yourselves well about it. 

Cham, I can see where you're coming from, and I hope you will take the time to truy educate yourself on the subject of autism, since you are now in a position of real personal experience with this syndrome. The more you know about it, the more you can help otherfamily members undrestand how to deal with it too. 

[simone4010]

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@4channel wrote:

Well thank goodness that they stopped putting mercury in vaccines 19 years ago.  Thanks for mentioning that it is only used in Flu shots. I remember some time back there were parents accused of shaking their babies but vaccinations back then could have been contributing to Shaken Baby Syndrome .

Well, knowing that the toxin is still in Influenza vaccines, I'll stay clear of that and look after my system with better nutrition, vitamin C and one or two other things.  Too many people I know of have become sick after the flu shot and seem to have issues ongoing. I hope that toddlers under 3 years aren't getting it.

With aluminium, what occurs naturally is what our bodies are designed to handle. Putting it in vaccines by-passes the digestive process and there's more chance of it compromising the Blood Brain Barrier.

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4channel - Back in June I went to a children's party where I ran into a friend who had a six month old baby. She was telling me that at the baby's checkup the week before, the doctor said the baby should have a flu shot. My friend figured that since the baby was getting it that her and her husband should get it too. I then asked her where her husband was and she said he was home with the flu 

I've never had a flu nor have I ever had a flu shot. Olive leaf extract is a great immune system booster, I swear by it.