on 07-09-2015 06:49 PM
on 14-09-2015 04:05 PM
@wayward216 wrote:well obviously it shows that Muslims don't need to be able to profit from food in order to be able to consume it, which is what you argued when you suggested protesting against Halal Certification moved to deny Muslims food.
I don't think you understand at all why they want certification. I see Jews eating bacon nearly every day, that does not mean that they all should or can.
on 14-09-2015 04:46 PM
I don't think you do.
There's no shortage of Muslims speaking out against Halal Certification, you'll even find a couple of certifiers very critical of it. Actually wasn't it you that said you had no interest in reading any submissions? If yes then you probably won't find out anything, it takes research to understand this debate.
on 14-09-2015 05:48 PM
@wayward216 wrote:I don't think you do.
There's no shortage of Muslims speaking out against Halal Certification, you'll even find a couple of certifiers very critical of it. Actually wasn't it you that said you had no interest in reading any submissions? If yes then you probably won't find out anything, it takes research to understand this debate.
I said I don't need to because there are people out there (huge market) that wish to buy halal certified.
This is what happens when you do the wrong thing http://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/federal-court-orders-250000-penalty-against-darling-downs-fresh...
on 14-09-2015 06:04 PM
and because you have no desire to learn about it, but every desire to be critical of those that have, this is an example of the discrimination you remain oblivious to. Sorry, but your opinion doesn't count for much;
Sikh Education Welfare and Advancement (SEWA)1 Mobile: Email: Baldev Singh Dhaliwal ACIBSE, MCMI, JP SEWA Network Co-ordination Australia 27 July 2015 SENATE STANDING COMMITTEE ON ECONOMICS Third Party Certification of Food Inquiry Submission on behalf of SEWA Network, Australia Sikh Australians, as other fellow Australians, have an expectation that food items can be selected off the store shelves according to their dietary preference without being subjected to the religious requirement of another religious group. Halal certified food not clearly distinguishable from the rest, as at present, is a severe infringement of that freedom. Sikhs respect the beliefs of others and their right to practise their own faith, but Sikhs have their own distinct beliefs and code of discipline. However, what is clearly stated as one of the four serious breaches (Bajjar Kureht) of Sikh Religious Discipline and Code of Practice (Sikh Reht Maryada) is the consumption of Halal, which is specifically stated as meat of an animal killed in an Islamic sacrificial manner (under the Islamic Law of Sharia). Any form of offering, sacrificial or ritual slaughter is strictly against the Sikh belief. Sikh fundamental belief is that the Creator dwells within His Creation. This belief is supported by the holy Sikh Scriptures, Sri Guru Granth Sahib, the eternal Guru of the Sikhs. Any form of ritual offering assumes an entity existing outside the creation. That GOD can be pleased and mollified by an offering or a sacrifice flies in the face of this fundamental Sikh belief. The only offering that a Sikh can and is expected to make is of self, of ones ego! Sikhi, the Sikh Way of Life, is based on the lives of 10 Guru Personalities and is gained through contemplation of the Guru’s Word embodied in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, passed on to the Sikhs by the Guru Personalities themselves.. The pertinent point for this submission is that the Sikhi, the Sikh Way, liberates the individual from pointless traditions, taboos, omens, rituals, sacrifices etc. Wikipedia definition of Halal with very little variation from other sources is as follows: Halāl (Arabic: حلال ḥalāl, 'permissible') or halaal[1] is any object or an action which is permissible to use or engage in, according to Islamic law. The term covers and designates not only food and drink but also all matters of daily life.[2] It is one of five ماكحألا ةسمخلا (al-ahkam al-khamsah) — fard (compulsory), mustahabb (recommended), halal (allowed), makruh (disliked), haram (forbidden) — that define the morality of human action in Islam.[3] Mubah is also used to mean "permissible" or "allowed" in Islam. Generally in Islam, every object and action is considered permissible unless there is a prohibition of it in the Islamic scriptures.[2][4][5] Clarification is given below in detail as to what is considered to be a permissible object or action in Islam, along with the exceptions. Third party certification of food Submission 1118 Sikh Education Welfare & Advancement (SEWA) network, Australia, aims to promote better understanding of Sikh ideology and identity; and, to consult and advise about matters relating to community welfare and progress as Sikh Australians. 2 For the purpose of this submission the Sikh Australians, therefore, understand that HALAL is a religious label under the Islamic Law of Sharia. The product may or may not have meat products in it. However, all meat and meat products are from animals ritually slaughtered in a manner prescribed under the Islamic Law. With the above understanding in mind, Sikh Australians submit as follows: Sikhs object to all Halal products on religious grounds. Halal is religiously sanctioned food and products (including medicines) according to the rituals of another religion; rituals, that the Sikhs reject. Consuming those products makes the Sikhs party to those very rituals that they reject. The ritual of making any offering or a sacrificial slaughter is against the Sikh belief. Such an act as an offering to GOD (which by implication would appear to be outside the Creation) is against the fundamental Sikh belief. Sikhs object to sacrificial slaughter of an animal. Sikhs believe that animal killed for sustenance, for food (some Sikhs are vegetarians) should be killed in the most humane manner, not according to a religious ritual. The 10th Guru, Guru Gobind Singh, introduced the term Jhatka, meaning by one strike of the sword. That is slaughtering the animal by one stroke of the sword as opposed to the Islamic manner of Halal. This in the present day context is interpreted to mean the use of the most humane method of slaughtering the animal. For the most humane manner of slaughtering an animal, the Sikhs would rely on and will support the experts of how to slaughter the animal most humanely, not on a religious group. Sikhs, therefore, reject the Halal manner of slaughtering the animal. Sikhs as Australians believe that all citizens of Australia should have the freedom of choice and should not be subjected to the religious rituals of a particular religious group. This is not being disrespectful to any particular group, but exercising their own freedom of choice. Any religious group wishing to have food and food products (including medicines) according to their own religious requirement should do so at their own expense. Such additional costs should not be passed on to non-Muslim consumers. As Australian tax-payers, we would expect the Islamic Halal Certification authorities to be tax accountable for the income from the levy collected from halal certification. Suppliers, distributors and retailers should ensure that such products are clearly labelled and are kept separate from the rest. Australians should be able to exercise their right of choice. All expenses incurred in the process of Halal Certification should be reflected in the price of the product and should not be a burden on the rest of Australians. Halal label is a Religious label under the Islamic Law of Sharia. All Australians should have the choice of not consuming halal on religious or other grounds.
Submission #1118
on 14-09-2015 06:08 PM
This from the ACAHC submission
"Consumers deserve compulsory labelling. It can only move to benefit consumers that wish to purchase
certified goods, or to avoid certified goods. Australia has thrived on free market principles of which our
democratic principles mirror. We have many laws that are designed to prevent companies from
misleading consumers, however our laws regarding food certification have failed. As an example the
ACCC has the power to prosecute companies that provide false or misleading claims. Such as if a
company makes a claim that a product is halal or halal certified, but clearly isn't. They have confirmed
this is an action that can be prosecuted. However when a false claim of the same example is reversed,
such as non disclosure of a Halal Certified product, this is not an action they can prosecute as no specific
claim has been made. But the degree of deception is the same, however when one is lawful and the
other illegal, it tells you that Consumer Protection Laws have broken down. You need to give the ACCC
greater powers. As any parent will attest, remaining silent and telling a lie, are often the same thing. A
number of submissions provided to you have claimed consumer protection laws do prevent deception
and protect consumers, however none have provided you with evidence supporting those claims. The
fact is the current laws are inadequate and do not protect all consumers equally."
on 14-09-2015 06:12 PM
and because you have no desire to learn about it, but every desire to be critical of those that have, this is an example of the discrimination you remain oblivious to. Sorry, but your opinion doesn't count for much;
It is not about desire, it is about need. If you were up in arms about berry labeling I would be behind you because that presents a health risk.
Please try and convince me instead that you are doing this for the common good and not because you are anti islam.
on 14-09-2015 07:12 PM
if you have no need, and no desire, then explain why there is any point in you participating in this debate? You're certainly not achieving anything and you've done nothing to argue why there shouldn't be objections or why there shouldn't be improvements to the current structure of certification.
As for proving I'm not anti Islam, I am anti Islam. I'm also anti scientology, christianity, judaism etc etc etc. I'm an Atheist. I think all these religions are nothing short of fantasy that costs everyone billions of dollars each year, billions that could do so much good in the world. I may have no respect for religion, but I'll defend anyone's right to believe in whatever sky fairy they choose, I'll also speak out against those that are discriminated against. Shame there aren't more that do, you certainly don't.
Now feel free to explain how all these people that wish not to fund Islam, hurt you in anyway whatsoever? Are you a bigot that supports Islam but opposes other conflicting beliefs?
on 14-09-2015 07:53 PM
on 14-09-2015 08:02 PM
on 14-09-2015 09:00 PM
I don't know, perhaps the answer lies in why you would reply to a comment without actually reading it?
Against religion, pro a persons right to practice religion ring a bell?