Intelligence?

[rabbitearbandicoot]

what is Intelligence?

Are we more or less Intelligent than those who lived 50 years ago?

Are we more or less Intelligent than those who lived 500 years ago?

Are we more or less Intelligent than those who lived 5000 years ago?

Is a person of today who can read, more intelligent than the people of x,000 years ago who recognised the need for written language and set about designing one (well many)?

I am not talking about learned knowledge although that could be a subject all on it's own - I am talking about Intelligence or the ability to reason, learn.

[i-need-a-martini]

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@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

Einstein: "I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots".

A typical example of this - the current generation, and we oldies to a lesser extent, have become a nation of idiots because of the continued use of 'mechanical devices' like calculators, cash registers and computers. Ask one of the cashiers in Wollies to add up something in their heads - in the majority of case they have no idea.

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Doesn't make them idiots.

And when you think about it, the basics of maths taughts 20, 50, 100 years ago is still taught today. How to add, subtract, multiply. 

Anything beyond that was rarely taught in schools. And what they teach them now (with and without a calculator) is the kind of stuff you would have once needed a degree to understand. I have to help my Year 7 daughter with maths and it is near impossible. It's not stuff I would have had to know for my HSC 30 years ago.

[lloydslights]

Surely intelligence can be tiring.  Over-exercised?  Maybe some of those lazing on a beach are resting their intelligence.

DEB

[rabbitearbandicoot]

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@i-need-a-martini wrote:

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@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

Einstein: "I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots".

A typical example of this - the current generation, and we oldies to a lesser extent, have become a nation of idiots because of the continued use of 'mechanical devices' like calculators, cash registers and computers. Ask one of the cashiers in Wollies to add up something in their heads - in the majority of case they have no idea.

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Doesn't make them idiots. Yes, I agree in the traditional meaning of 'idiots' but I don't think eistein  meant it in that way either, but you have to admit that when you don't use it, you lose it. I know I have relied on calculators and computers way too much and as a result my ability to add has become 'rusty'. I used to be able to look at a column of figures and add them up in my head - can't now. Maybe that is partly because of age, but also due to the 'use it or lose it' idea.

And when you think about it, the basics of maths taughts 20, 50, 100 years ago is still taught today. How to add, subtract, multiply.  Have you tried asking a cashier to add up without their cash register - or even work out the change due?

Anything beyond that was rarely taught in schools. And what they teach them now (with and without a calculator) is the kind of stuff you would have once needed a degree to understand. I have to help my Year 7 daughter with maths and it is near impossible. It's not stuff I would have had to know for my HSC 30 years ago. Is the new maths more effective or less effective in a daily usage scenario?

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[lloydslights]

Rabbit, maybe anyone who can add up columns of figures in their head think they are too intelligent to be a cashier.  

Then maybe, they are resting their brain by utilising the machine, so they can think more clearly of other important issues with which no machine can assist.

But of course, it all comes down to Time & Money.

I recall adding up a whole list of product prices, only to be told by the customer that that couldn't be correct because I was too fast.  

She insisted I do it on the adding machine (where I punched in a wrong number - on purpose) and it "proved" she was right.  She paid $3 more because of that accidental wrong punched number.  Another happy customer.

DEB

[lionrose.7]

[chameleon54]

Thats a classic Deb, brought a smile to my dull day. ( packing parcels after easter rush ). I had a similar experience years ago. Sitting in the bank managers office applying ( read grovelling ) for a loan, I could work out the repayments based on different interest scenarios quicker than the manager could punch the numbers into the calculator. Yes I did get the loan but it was a long time ago.

I couldnt do it now though as like many others I just use the calculator for everything and find my maths skills very rusty. 

Just another thought, maths and music have a lot in common. The scales, bar chords and chord sequences are all based on repetative patterns like maths. I find when playing base guitar, my brain works in the same way as it used to with maths equations.

The previously mentioned son with high IQ but learning disabilities is rather brilliant with what he can do with music. The little begger can just pick up any instrument and start playing it and does amazing things on the computer, entering chord sequences, sounds, rythms etc. to make music out of thin air. He has showed me how he does it and its all really maths based, using symbols on the screen, without any real sound cues. But once he has finished allocating instruments to codes etc. it sounds great..   

[para-slights]

I like Martini's initial example of the evolution of language to paper etc as an example of generational intelligence. It's not just knowledge that was applied to create and elaborate on already established inventions it takes intelligence to refine the progress, It's only taken us 66 years or so to go from the first true flight of a few metres to sending humans into space. While it maybe that modern technology could be dumbing a generation (I don't believe it's so) there is a certain irony in that classic scenario of parents asking their children how to work modern technology. So I think it's even playing field in comparison lol

[rabbitearbandicoot]

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@para-slights wrote:

I like Martini's initial example of the evolution of language to paper etc as an example of generational intelligence. It's not just knowledge that was applied to create and elaborate on already established inventions it takes intelligence to refine the progress, It's only taken us 66 years or so to go from the first true flight of a few metres to sending humans into space. While it maybe that modern technology could be dumbing a generation (I don't believe it's so) there is a certain irony in that classic scenario of parents asking their children how to work modern technology. So I think it's even playing field in comparison lol

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so, are you saying that the new generation is more Intelligent than their parents?

Or is it that they have been conditioned to a set of parameters that Microsoft (to a large extent) dictate - ie that all programs under Windows follow the same formula of 'intuitiveness' - if that's a word. ie the more modern programs at least feature a very similar Intuitive formula as far as operating them is concerned.

{edit: and so, once you know how one works - it's pretty similar to the next one}

[rabbitearbandicoot]

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@para-slights wrote:

I like Martini's initial example of the evolution of language to paper etc as an example of generational intelligence. It's not just knowledge that was applied to create and elaborate on already established inventions it takes intelligence to refine the progress, It's only taken us 66 years or so to go from the first true flight of a few metres to sending humans into space. While it maybe that modern technology could be dumbing a generation (I don't believe it's so) there is a certain irony in that classic scenario of parents asking their children how to work modern technology. So I think it's even playing field in comparison lol

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but what do you think about my question in the OP?

Who do you think is more Intelligent, the people who saw a need for and invented writing or those of us today who read.

{edit: I am talking here about the first real writing ie a written language as distinct from pictographs. - Maybe it was aramaic??

[chameleon54]

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@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

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@para-slights wrote:

I like Martini's initial example of the evolution of language to paper etc as an example of generational intelligence. It's not just knowledge that was applied to create and elaborate on already established inventions it takes intelligence to refine the progress, It's only taken us 66 years or so to go from the first true flight of a few metres to sending humans into space. While it maybe that modern technology could be dumbing a generation (I don't believe it's so) there is a certain irony in that classic scenario of parents asking their children how to work modern technology. So I think it's even playing field in comparison lol

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but what do you think about my question in the OP?

Who do you think is more Intelligent, the people who saw a need for and invented writing or those of us today who read.

{edit: I am talking here about the first real writing ie a written language as distinct from pictographs. - Maybe it was aramaic??

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I,m not para-slights but

It still gets back to how you define intelligence. Do we use the academic IQ tests, designed by westerners, for westerners, based on values that western academics deem important or is there other equally valuable forms of intelligence that don't fall neatly into our westernised standard IQ test. I tend to think the latter is correct. Early civilisations and tribesman needed a different set of skills to survive, than we do today. Is the amazing tracking skills of the traditional aborigine a legitimate test of native IQ ? I believe so but westerners barely give it a thought. Is the invention of the wheel as revolutionary in its time as the microchip of today. Again I believe the answer is yes.

I think Einteins quote ( per lind9650 ) that " I fear the day that technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots ". is apt and we are probably at that point now. Taking an average of the general population, we have very little life skills, we have everything provided for us, we don't often plan difficult tasks requiring a broad understanding of a range of factors. Basically modern Australians are molly coddled to the extent that the general population is dumbed down and does not need to use ( exercise ) the intelligence we may have, thus not developing it to its full extent.

If you want evidence,  just look what are the top rating TV shows. Read some of the largest daily papers ( tabloids ) or listen to the very high rating "shock Jocks" and younger audience, high rating radio stations. Have a look at the politicians we elect and the short term, self interested policies we as a population demand they implement. If that is an indication of a nation of high intellects then I despair.