People smuggling question

[*elizabeths-mum*]

When people purchase their place in the boat, what is the arrangement? Is it that you will be brought to Australia to be processed as a refugee at the appropriate place or that you will be brought to Australia and landed on an isolated bit of coastland where you will be secretly integrated as an illegal immigrant? Or something else? Are the people in the centres those who were caught by the coast watch and are there a lot who arrive undetected?
I am so ignorant about this.

[i-need-a-martini]

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@*elizabeths-mum* wrote:
This is doing my head in.

Looking here:
'Unauthorised' arrivals enter Australia without a valid visa. Australia detains 'unauthorised' arrivals while their refugee applications are decided. Those found to be refugees according to Australian migration law and who pass medical and security tests are granted a temporary protection visa (TPV). Unauthorised arrivals who are found not to be refugees under Australian migration law remain in detention until they are removed from the country.
How do 'unauthorised' arrivals enter Australia?

'Unauthorised' arrivals enter Australia by sea and air. In recent years, most asylum seekers have come to Australia by sea.

Boat arrivals

Since 1989, 13,593 people came to Australia by boat without approval of the Australian Government.

In 2001-02, 1,277 people arrived in Australia by boat without a visa.
In 2003-04, 53 people arrived in Australia by boat without a visa. They were taken to Christmas Island and processed by DIMIA.
http://www.humanrights.gov.au/publications/questions-and-answers-about-refugees-asylum-seekers


When they say 'enter Australia' does that mean Australian waters?

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Elizabeths mum - I think you are confused because you are mixing the terms in the 2 articles.

The term 'unauthorised entry' is a term given to someone who has arrived without the proper papers (visas, papers etc). These people are most likely to be boat people. But it isn't illegal to seek asylum so they really haven't done anything illegal as long as they declare themselves which they always do.

The term 'illegal' refers to anyone who is here when they aren't supposed to be and have disappearred off the govts radar. This means they may have entered the country legally (by plane) with the correct papers (like a holiday visa) but didn't leave at the end of their visa expiration.

Personally I think the latter people are the dangerous ones. Who knows what they are up to. And whilst we focus on asylum seekers, there are illegals running around without anyone raising an eyebrow.

But overseas, the term 'illegal' is often used for people who cross borders without papers. It's a little easier to do it through Europe.

[*elizabeths-mum*]

Thanks, martini. The more I read, the more confused I became. 

So to summarise, when someone purchases passage on a dodgy boat, their only expectation (hope) is that they will be brought into Australian waters where they can can claim asylum and while some boats have made it to Australian shores (from reading Lakelands army thread as well as articles) once here, they don't hide, but go to where they can claim asylum in the hopes of being accepted as a refugee.

I can't imagine their desperation.  

[katydidthat]

EM, it doesn't sound like you have met any refugees or asylum seekers ... I've met several and you're absolutely right. They were desperate.

I met a young mother who had kids at my son's school ... she had no "state". She found herself in Palestine, then in Asia ... in a camp with little food, bad accommodation, no education ... then she got to Australia ... and found herself in a detention centre for 2 - 3 years. Horrible place, people hurting themselves around her, still no education for her children beyond what she could provide.

So, she shared some of her home made ME food with me, and we had a long chat one day. After she told me her story, I asked her what she thought of Australia (and I meant it regarding her stay in the camp). She said that she loved Australia and she was very grateful that she was able to stay here.

No bitterness about conditions, no regrets about the wasted years for her and the children ...

[jean2579]

katy, my son is a barrister who represents these unauthorised arrivals for free. Like most other people I had never met someone in this situation until initially his wedding and then a few weeks ago at the baptism of our grand daughter. When we were introduced to them they said that they could not pay him, but by coming to celebrate his marriage and the baptism they could at least say thank you in some way. Some of the stories he has told us are horrendous.They are just ordinary people who have done extraordinary things.

[katydidthat]

Jean, tell your son congratulations on his work and let him know that lots of Australians are very grateful for what he does.  

I take it he's in a big city?  

[katydidthat]

The first link is the story of an Afghani male who has been settled in Australia ... the other stories are about the refugee issue generally.  

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/20/australia-refugees-boat

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/19/kevin-rudd-asylum-boats-png

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/19/rudds-boat-fix-sense-sailed

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2013/jul/02/australia-asylum-seekers

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/22/release-footage-distressed-asylum-seekers

[*elizabeths-mum*]

Thank you for the links. I found the different statistics fascinating as well as the personal stories.

[newstart2380]

Can anyone enlighten me to this question please?  -  if the "boat people" (who pay huge amounts of money) are sent to PNG to be settled who is paying the PNG government to settle these people ?

From what I understand the Australian government will be paying millions to the PNG government, this means the Australian tax payer will be funding the project.

Does this mean we will be "hit" with another tax maybe called the KRudd "fix the stuffup" tax

I still believe the boats should be stopped from leaving Indonesia, how I don't know but the problem must be tackled at the source not at the destination. 

[***super_nova***]

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The only way you can stop asylum seekers leaving Indonesia is if you threaten them with something that is worth fate than the possibility of drowning at sea.  That is what Rudd is trying to do.  And yes we have to pay something for sending them to PNG, we will pay whatever happens, so it is not the point.

Oh, yes and another option of stopping them leaving Indonesia is to invade them, and put guards at every tiny village around the Indonesian coast. 

Refugees are every politicians nightmare, if there was a solution it would have already happen.  The only way there will not be refugees needing protection is when (LOL) there will not be armed conflict anywhere in the world.

[katydidthat]

I think that if we (Australia) took more asylum seekers from Indonesia in a more timely fashion, and if the UNHCR was better funded and moved more quickly, there would be less of a problem.  If asylum seekers KNEW the process in Indonesia (or other places) and could have some certainty, there would be fewer people wanting to get on boats.  

Really, I don't think most people want to enter Australia illegally ... I think they are so desperate that this appears to be their only option.