Silent war

[springyzone]

Wow, just... wow.

I saw this news online.

‘Silent civil war’: Irish teacher jailed for refusing to call boy a girl (msn.com)

This teacher has not only lost his job but is jailed indefinitely for failing to comply and call a boy a girl. Or use the term 'they'.

I particularly dislike the term 'they' for one person as the term is plural. The word 'it' would be more appropriate, in fact, or if someone is really uncomfortable, just call the child by name.

But the part that resonates with me is further down in the report, where it says that we are at the stage of compelling people to say things they don't believe in.

I'm not arguing the rights or wrongs of someone 'transitioning'.

Just saying we should allow people their personal beliefs. Calling the child by name or 'him' is not a crime worth jailing anyone for, it is a travesty of justice.

[springyzone]

I agree and I think he probably has created nuisance.

But I wonder why, exactly, he was sacked. That's what we need to know.

I think if someone is sacked from a job & it turns out to be over an issue like this, it is problematical. And it could make a person quite vocal.

To me, it is an interesting question as to how much freedom of choice people should have to their own beliefs or to speak their own opinions. I remember an old friend on the boards (American) who used to say freedom of speech is not the freedom to eg shout fire in a crowded theatre, but the freedom to say almost anything else anywhere.

I have a friend who is extremely anti abortion. She was a nurse for several decades. At one hospital she refused to attend or help out at abortions. The doctors were extremely angry with her, it led to scenes apparently, but she stood her ground. They said that as she was employed by the hospital, she 'had' to toe the line. She offered to swap places with some other nurse for other duties but they didn't like that either. She eventually left there and worked elsewhere.

[domino-710]

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@springyzone wrote:

I have a friend who is extremely anti abortion. She was a nurse for several decades. At one hospital she refused to attend or help out at abortions. The doctors were extremely angry with her, it led to scenes apparently, but she stood her ground. They said that as she was employed by the hospital, she 'had' to toe the line. She offered to swap places with some other nurse for other duties but they didn't like that either. She eventually left there and worked elsewhere.

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[domino-710]

Good grief,

There are clinics who will deal with - rape - incest - unwanted - accidental - whatever pregnancies.

An hospital is where they terminate - due to major complications either for the fetus or the mother.

Don't even get me started on Roe & Wade.

[*sons_n_daughters*]

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@domino-710 wrote:

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Took me a bit to find the 3rd "symbol". I nearly missed the alien above the toaster.

[springyzone]

I'm not arguing for or against abortion here. Nor for or against the transgender view as such either.

It's not a 'different' case of worms as such. What I am asking is to what extent should people be allowed their own opinions in a workplace. I think it sounds self evident at first eg if you don't agree, don't work there etc etc

But sometimes the opinions don't necessarily have a lot of relationship to the job.

When it comes to schools, my own opinion is that teachers should pretty much keep their views to themselves . No one needs to know their politics, religious views, sexual preferences, views on climate change etc. They should just be able to get on with the job.

I'm retired now but there was a creeping factor coming in even back in my day, where we had less and less power and sometimes some ridiculous regulations/suggestions coming in. That of course is just my opinion but there is tremendous pressure to conform.

[domino-710]

Exactly what that ' nurse ' should have been doing - her job.

[springyzone]

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@domino-710 wrote:

Exactly what that ' nurse ' should have been doing - her job.

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You might be surprised to find she was one of the very experienced nurses in her field. She spent many years in general nursing then many in midwifery. She was extremely competent in her job. So putting inverted commas around nurse, which suggests she wasn't a real nurse, I don't think that really addresses the issue at all.

The issue being-how far do we accommodate people who maybe don't have mainstream opinions? We are constantly being told to be tolerant of others but how far does that extend to those with very conservative opinions? 

From what I can see, not necessarily very far.

[imastawka]

Conversely, I've never had a transgender or non-binary person ask me what pronouns I would prefer.

Just sayin'

[bidicus*maximus]

All of this business about pronouns seems silly to me when, "he" and "she" should suffice as general terms based on what you were born as.  Much like when, "man" is used instead of, "human" and refers to both men AND women.  Being so touchy as to require the rest of the world to bow down and use the pronoun that YOU prefer seems like a person is feeling more than a bit entitled, to me.  

As to the question that is really being asked, about how far a person should be allowed to express their own opinions at work, my opinion is, "not far at all"... especially if your opinions are in conflict with those of your employer.  Express your opinions on your own time, not while you are being paid to do your job.  I think that people tend to forget that while they are at work, they are the servant of their employers.  They are always free to seek employment elsewhere.

[domino-710]

Springy - the inverted commas around nurse meant her job.

Any professional opinion given as far as a job goes - well & good.

But personal opinions/beliefs are not covered for that which you are being paid to do.

Refusing to aid - in a hospital - where a doctor's professional diagnosis tops the personal opinion/belief of the nurse - 

is not exactly doing the job - nor is it in the interest of the patient.

If it were my/your daughter with an unviable pregnancy - I'd certainly want the best professional care available.