Why are people such staunch Labor voters?

Particularly when every Labor governement in living history has amounted such huge debts whilst in office?

 

Or is it just that they blindly follow the old mantra, that 'Labor is for the working man?'

 

Now don't get me wrong - I don't particularly like Abbott, and I sure as h3ll didn't like Rudd or Gillard, but there's so much more to a political party than it's leader.

 

Feel free to discuss...

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Re: Why are people such staunch Labor voters?

I say that the NT is not indicative of the whole country, a graph showing the result of the whole country's results would be a more honest picture ๐Ÿ™‚
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Re: Why are people such staunch Labor voters?

Poddster - still waiting for your  list of 'rebates ALL' low income earners' get which means they ALL pay no tax at all - (as you claimed).

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Re: Why are people such staunch Labor voters?


@am*3 wrote:

Poddster - still waiting for your  list of 'rebates ALL' low income earners' get which means they ALL pay no tax at all - (as you claimed).


your not the only one waiting am3

time to put up or shut up plods

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Re: Why are people such staunch Labor voters?


@j*oono wrote:

That chart seems to only show results for the Northern Territory.

 

 


Yeah, whats with that Poddster? Trying to mislead viewers of this thread?

 

 

Our childrenโ€™s school results are the worst in the country

The 2013 Northern Territory NAPLAN (National Assessment Program Literacy and Numeracy) results

 

http://www.education.nt.gov.au/news/the-facts

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Re: Why are people such staunch Labor voters?

Further reiteation needed.

 

No, the rich donโ€™t pay a โ€˜fair shareโ€™ of tax. They pay all of it

Adam Creighton

Economics Correspondent

Sydney

 

Illustration: Sturt Krygsman. Source: News Corp Australia

THE degree of ignorance about the distribution of tax across households is remarkable, especially given that the truth is so easily and freely accessible. For politicians perhaps it is wilful; the facts suit neither side.

The Left typically tries to create the impression the โ€œrichโ€ arenโ€™t paying their โ€œfair shareโ€. Consider former treasurer Wayne Swanโ€™s attacks on โ€œmining billionairesโ€ and welfare groupsโ€™ continual prattling about the financial benefit of concessional super taxation to high-income earners.

The Right, meanwhile, evokes the ordinary, โ€œbattlingโ€ taxpayer, whose hard-won earnings, so the argument goes, are siphoned off to pay for inefficient or ineffective government programs.

But the overwhelming bulk of people in Australia pay no net tax at all. High-income earners have become a giant pinata that the majority hit for extra money to pay for whatever new social spending programs the political class proposes to stay in office.

Our constitutional democracy, rather than safeguarding a set of inviolable tax rules applied under the rule of law, has become an elaborate mechanism for extracting resources from a small minority for the much larger majority. A crude summary might be โ€œpay up or elseโ€.

Only the top fifth of households ranked by their income - those with incomes of more than $200,000 a year in the financial year ending June 2012 - pay anything into the system net of the value of social security in cash and kind received, according to data from the latest Australian Bureau of Statistics survey of household income.

The distribution of personal income tax - the federal governmentโ€™s biggest source of revenue, raising about 45 per cent of the total ($165 billion this year) - is far more progressive than headline marginal tax rates suggest. Including the 1.5 per cent Medicare levy, Australiaโ€™s income tax rates range from 19 per cent for every dollar of income above $18,200 to 46.5 per cent for every dollar above $180,000. Most taxpayers face a 34.5 per cent marginal rate.

But average income tax rates on householdsโ€™ privately generated income (ordinarily wages and salaries, but dividends and rental income too) ranged from 1.5 per cent for the bottom fifth of households in 2012 to 22 per cent for the top fifth.

The 1.73 million households in the middle quintile paid an average tax rate of 12.3 per cent on average incomes of $88,900. But the ABS survey estimates these households received $31 a week in Age Pension payments, $13 in disability payments, $48 in child-related payments and $12 in unemployment benefits, along with a host of others that whittle their average net tax payments down to $84 a week.

This sort of analysis excludes the value of government benefits beyond cash: โ€œfreeโ€ schools, hospitals, public transport and the like, which the ABS estimated to be $413 a week for these middle-ranked households. Netting everything off shows even โ€œaverageโ€, let alone lower-income, households got back $2.70 for every $1 they paid in tax. Households in the bottom quintile enjoyed benefits worth more than 320 times what they paid in tax compared with about 10 times for those in the second-lowest quintile.

Notwithstanding the enormous variation in the circumstances of individuals and households within each of these five buckets - for instance, childless, healthy workers will pay in much more than unemployed families with sick children - the disparities are as remarkable as they are little-known.

Factoring in payment of โ€œregressiveโ€ taxes such as the GST and tobacco and alcohol excise doesnโ€™t appear to alter the overall picture. Every six or so years the ABS painstakingly distributes the burden of these โ€œtaxes on productionโ€ across households, based on estimated consumption patterns.

In the financial year ending June 2010, what one might call โ€œholistic average tax ratesโ€ (including indirect and direct taxes and net of social security in cash and kind) ranged from -64 per cent for the bottom quintile, to -22 per cent for median households and 13 per cent for the top fifth of households.

Put simply, only the top fifth of households paid any tax. The bottom 6.9 million households, while often incurring income tax liabilities and regularly paying GST, received more in cash welfare and services than they paid in.

The concentration of the tax burden on higher-income earners would be starker still if the many tens of thousands of senior local, state and federal public servants - whose salaries often exceed $200,000 a year - were considered a cost. One could argue that the taxes paid by workers whose jobs depend on taxing other workers are akin to a cash refund to everyone else, rather than an organic contribution.

It is absurd to claim the โ€œrichโ€ - assuming incomes rather than wealth are the defining criterion - arenโ€™t paying their โ€œfair shareโ€ of tax when they in fact pay all of it. Equally, to argue that the โ€œaverageโ€ worker is subsidising government folly is difficult given that their aggregate benefits exceed the tax they pay.

Without making any judgment about the merits or fairness of the status quo, the burden appears to be shifting further toward higher-income earners. Comparing the 2003-04 and 2009-10 financial years, holistic average tax rates fell on average 8.2 percentage points for the bottom three income quintiles, but only 4.6 per cent for the top two quintiles.

It is still difficult to explain why these rates fell because there are so many moving parts to the social security and income tax systems. Of course, lower tax rates do not imply that less tax is collected: the level and growth rates of income across income quintiles varies and a one-percentage-point drop in average tax rates for higher-income earners has far greater consequences for revenue than much bigger changes for others.

Separate data from the Australian Taxation Office confirm rising progressivity. Based on income tax returns from the 2010-11 financial year, the top 1 per cent of individual income earners - who in the 2010-11 tax year were those with taxable incomes of more than $281,800 a year - paid $23.55bn or 17.7 per cent of the total income tax haul, up from 17 per cent in 2009-10.

Meanwhile, the top 10 per cent of taxpayers - with taxable incomes of more than $105,500 - paid 46 per cent, up from 45.3 per cent a year earlier. The bottom third paid less than 5 per cent in both periods.

The highly and increasingly progressive nature of Australiaโ€™s tax burden is clear, but why?

First, income tax becomes more progressive every year without any deliberate change because of what economists call โ€œfiscal dragโ€. Because the income tax thresholds are fixed in nominal terms and prices tend to rise, every year more taxpayers are pushed into ever-higher tax brackets and larger portions of their real incomes are taxed at higher rates.

Also, most people earn relatively little. While the ABS reports that average annual earnings for individuals were $74,000 a year last May, this figure doesnโ€™t reflect typical circumstances because the โ€œaverageโ€ is an irrelevant socio-economic metric, increasingly undermined by rare but very large individual incomes. According to the 2011 census, the median household income, which is unaffected by outliers, was only $64,100.

Within advanced countries, the distribution of incomes has become more and more skewed since the 1980s, albeit less rapidly here than in the US and Britain. Economists debate vigorously whether this is because globalisation has boosted the financial returns to innovation, talent and skilled work, or whether the corporate (especially the finance) sector has become more skilled at extracting income at the expense of everyone else (โ€rent seekingโ€).

Regardless, burgeoning incomes at the top have given governments a lucrative and politically attractive revenue source. Both major political parties in Australia have been able to promise extra, vote-winning government spending that increasingly overwhelms growth in taxes paid by the vast bulk of the population.

The Labor governmentโ€™s decision to lift the Medicare levy to 2 per cent from this July to partly pay for the forthcoming disability insurance scheme is a good recent example. For its part, the Coalition wants to impose a temporary โ€œlevyโ€ on big companiesโ€™ profits (which will reduce dividend income flowing to upper-income earners) to pay for its paid parental leave scheme.

The massive disparity between gross and net payments of tax - 12.6 million people lodged income tax returns in 2010-11 - suggests โ€œchurnโ€ is rampant and an immensely complex system is rife for rationalisation: we have more than 100 different taxes across three tiers of government interacting with a multitude of social security services in cash and kind.

The administrative costs of collecting taxes - especially income tax - are large, not to mention the damage they cause to enterprise and effort.

Cutting cash social security along with the first few marginal income tax rates, for instance, would create a more honest tax system and prompt a virtuous cycle of reducing welfare dependency, boosting employment to boot. By converting โ€œin-kindโ€ social security to cash, state governments could provide parents with a voucher to spend on schools administered in the private sector, would help to boost transparency.

Only a tiny share of the population were eligible for the very low rates of income tax that emerged in English-speaking countries in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. While the scope and size of governments have soared since then, the price of civilisation still, rightly, falls disproportionately on the richest.

The distribution of tax is not the problem but its growth as a share of national income is (along with undue focus on income rather than wealth as the determinant of someoneโ€™s capacity to pay).

Critics tend to argue that ever-greater taxes drive economic activity overseas and reduce the incentive to work, undermining growth. These are valid arguments but they do not answer the question of what is the most desirable โ€œinequality-economic growthโ€ trade-off.

No number of studies showing that rising tax rates stifle growth, however statistically persuasive, will match glib, emotional arguments that the โ€œrichโ€ can โ€œaffordโ€ to pay, so we should make them. The moral case for fixed, reasonable taxesmay resonate more than the pure economic one. Arbitrary increases in taxes to pay for services the market can and should provide offend the rule of law and erode individual property rights.

I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
Message 215 of 245
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Re: Why are people such staunch Labor voters?

That is an opinion piece. I posted other articles that contradict the above piece (in this thread, I think).

 

I wouldn't keep posting a long article like that several times either..... inconsiderate.

 

Your words : C&P's are media hype and posted by people with no original thoughts!

 

The guy that wrote that was probably confused about tax, same as The Australian Treasurer, Joe Hockey was. LOL

Message 216 of 245
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Re: Why are people such staunch Labor voters?

I don't have a lot of faith in graphs unless posted with an accompanying article, otherwise they can be pretty much anything from anywhere to prove a point or not iykwim
Message 217 of 245
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Re: Why are people such staunch Labor voters?

Yes, a link at least... funny those who don't like c&p's & links, then try and post irrelevant stuff to back up their claim, without any reference to it's source, or the title of the article!

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Re: Why are people such staunch Labor voters?

Poddster ironic article particularly when rupert Murdoch pays very little in taxes here himself, lol

He was handed a cash rebate of $862 million dollars in CASH of taxpayers money, just a few months after the LNP won the election. Rupert wants us little people to pay all the taxes, not the mega wealthy like himself

And there are countless articles written in his papers to try and justify himself. Unfortunately for him, most people are awake up to what he is doing
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Re: Why are people such staunch Labor voters?

Here you go you can all have a play here

 

http://reports.acara.edu.au/Home/Results#results

I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
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