27-04-2021 04:17 PM - edited 27-04-2021 04:18 PM
Current figures:
USA 98k cases per million 1764 deaths per million.
India 13k cases per million 142 deaths per million.
21-05-2021 04:10 PM - edited 21-05-2021 04:12 PM
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@springyzone wrote:Personally, I don't see why returning travellers should not be required to have had the vaccine before they are allowed in and even then, they should still need to quarantine. This may slow things up for returnees but if we have to make some sacrifices (and we certainly do, with snap lockdowns and restrictions possible at any time), then they unfortunately need to as well.
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@4channel wrote:
I can appreciate where you're coming from springyzone but having a requirement to be vaccinated in order to return to a country of residence where home, business interests and loved ones are is a further step towards mandatory vaccination. Once vaccinations become mandatory, we are in a fascist type of scenario.
The situation we have in the world today is a corrupt relationship between big business and politicians. Many of these large corporations are as corrupt as sin. It is rife throughout the Western world as well as else where. We have a vaccine that has been rushed out in less than one eighth of the time that many other vaccines are tested in. The horrific side effects from this have been under reported.
We also have a grossly incompetent government at this particular time. Look at the state that the Middle East is in. This is due to the antics of three dishonorable men.
There are proven treatments that are nearly always effective in the early stage treatment of this particular Corona virus. They are oral drug and supplement treatments with minimal if any side effect. People could opt for that and go with the quarantine that you suggested.
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@janeababe wrote:
Oh Jesus Christ on a stick with pumpkin..... here we go again!!!! 🤦🏻♀️
Please tell me 4C.... what is it about World Wide PANDEMIC that you don’t understand?
And I’d love to be made privy of when you graduated from uni with a medical science degree, You know, since you seem to think you have all the right info needed to prevent/cure/ rid us of covid-19.All hail 4C .... he can single handedly save the world crisis!
We ALL know you don’t like the vaccine. We ALL know what you feel about this govt. We ALL know you think there are bigger conspiracies at play here, world domination of a sorts..... that’s ok. Because of your constant vigilance on this matter, I have built up quite a supply of tinfoil, in prep for dooms day! 😐... (tongue in cheek, for those in the back row listening to yappy rat dogs 🤭)
I agree with springy. Returning travellers should be vaccinated, and quarantined ... but I’d like to see quarantine extended to 21 days instead of 14!
What price for life, hey? Is 2-3 weeks and 2 injections so terrible a price to pay?
And don’t you dare start on all this blood clot side effect drama that the media is blowing up out of proportion. Unlike the media, I actually research my information from reputable websites (unlike the ones in almost all of your links, I’d like to add). Are you aware, that in Australia alone, there are approximately 30,000 cases of blood clots reported and medically treated each year. So pardon me if 24 post covid clots, doesn’t raise red flags for me, considering Australia has vaccinated approx 3.4mil heads to date! (With approx 91,000 having received both injections, to date). Any other severe reactions, while undesirable, are purely unfortunate. EVERY medical procedure has risks. EVERY SINGLE ONE, even a simple removal of a cataract can have undesirable consequences (as I very well know) ....
So, for the sake of world wide sanity..... I ask you to get of the band wagon! You don’t have the qualifications to preach your ill researched nonsense nor the openness to give a non-biased opinion. JUST STOP! Please & thank you 🙏
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4channel replies:
I have a right to have my say here and offer my opinion based on what I know.
on 21-05-2021 04:14 PM
LOL - there were 4 Stooges.
on 22-05-2021 02:10 AM
Janebabe, are you involved with health care in any way? The way in which you understand risk and side effects sounds like it! <-- my little surgeon
What you have posted about the blood clot risk is something that I wish the average person in Australia would take the time to research properly. It is indeed a very minimal risk, and there are similar or higher risks in many medicines, other vaccines, etc.
@everyone... (Sorry, I am reading back and I KNOW it's a scroller.)
There are blood clot risks for people who take no medicine, for people who take some medicine, for people who take health supplements, for people who are physically active, for people who are genetically predisposed to certain conditions, for people who smoke, for people who don't smoke, for people who ... well, I could go on, but I'll try to keep it reasonably short!
Everything that we do carries with it risk. In terms of blood clots... Some are inherent, in our specific DNA. Some are a result of certain kinds of medication. Some are a result of lack of certain kinds of medication. Some are the result of certain kinds of activity. Some are the result of trauma. Some are the result of insufficient sleep. Some are the result of overwork. Some lie hidden for years and even after one's death, are unlikely to be listed on the autopsy report.
We live with risk every day of our lives. Often we barely quantify or acknowledge those risks. We ignore the risks of crossing the road, driving a car, getting onto an aeroplane. Most people are extremly half-hearted about the risks of the foods they eat, or don't eat; some will be very resistant to acknowledging the risks of cigarettes, alcohol, drugs. Many of us work for too many hours each week, hardly aware that this has severe and cumulative health risks. Our sporting activities carry inherent risks, but avoiding exercise altogether causes other risks.
The blood clot risks of a vaccine such as the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine are significantly lower than the risks of a blood clot due to contracting COVID-19. That is something which the media has either ignored or played down, and that irresponsible reporting has muddied the waters and caused even intelligent people to come to unwarranted conclusions. A recent study Cerebral venous thrombosis and portal vein thrombosis : a retrospective cohort study of 537,913 COVI... is well worth reading. Its objectives: To estimate the absolute risk of cerebral venous thrombosis (CVT) and portal vein thrombosis (PVT) in the two weeks following a diagnosis of COVID-19, and to assess the relative risks (RR) compared to influenza or the administration of an mRNA vaccine against COVID-19.
The results: The incidence of CVT after COVID-19 diagnosis was 42.8 per million people (95% CI 28.5 – 64.2) including 35.3 per million (95% CI 22.6 – 55.2) first diagnoses. This was significantly higher than the CVT incidence in a matched cohort of patients with influenza (RR= 3.83, 95% CI 1.56 – 9.41, P<0.001) and people who received an mRNA vaccine (RR= 6.67, 95% CI 1.98 – 22.43, P<0.001). The incidence of PVT after COVID-19 diagnosis was 392.3 per million people (95% CI 342.8 – 448.9) including 175.0 per million (95% CI 143.0 – 214.1) first diagnoses. This was significantly higher than the PVT incidence in a matched cohort of patients with influenza (RR=1.39, 95% CI 1.06 – 1.83, P=0.02) and people who received an mRNA vaccine (RR=7.40, 95% CI 4.87 – 11.2, P<0.001). Mortality after CVT and PVT was 17.4 % and 19.9 % respectively.
❝In a large electronic health records network, the absolute incidence of CVT and PVT in the 14 days after COVID-19 diagnosis was 42.8 and 392.3 per million patients respectively. The incidence rapidly decreased in the following weeks, which is compatible with a causal link between COVID-19 and those thrombotic events. However, causation can not be demonstrated with the current study and residual confounding (e.g. increased medical monitoring directly after COVID-19 vs. a few weeks later) might contribute to this observation. The incidence of CVT and PVT after COVID-19 is substantially greater than in the matched control cohorts.
The incidence of CVT after a diagnosis of COVID-19 is also substantially greater than the expected incidence in the general population in the USA, estimated to be between 0.53 and 0.77 per million people in any 2-week period and the rate is significantly higher than the highest of these estimates (binomial test: P<0.001). The incidence is also many-fold higher than the latest reported incidence of CVT following administration of the first dose of the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 (‘Oxford-AstraZeneca’) vaccine (reported by the European Medicines Agency to be around 5 per million vaccinated people) and the latest reported incidence of CVT following administration of the Ad26.COV2.S (“J&J”) vaccine (reported by the Food and Drug Administration to be about 0.9 per million vaccinated people).❞
incidence of CVT in patients with COVID-19 | 42.8 per million |
incidence of PVT in patients with COVID-19 | 392.3 per million |
CVT incidence in general population (USA) | between .53 and .77 per million |
incidence of CVT post-vaccination (Oxford-AstraZeneca) | 5 per million |
CVT/PVT is rare in the general population, but it is also rare post-AstraZeneca. We are talking about a risk that in any terms is very small indeed: less than 1%. Less than 0.1%. Less than 0.01%... Less than 0.001%.
Check the incidences of side-effects in any medicine that you're prescribed; you are very likely indeed to see most of the side effects with higher risks than 0.0005%. By any medical measure, that is a fantastically low risk, and leads to the statement "This vaccine is very well tolerated" being highly applicable and completely correct.
Why is there such hesitation as a result of this tiny percentage? ... Because - in my opinion - of the way that the media has reported it. Every single example of an affected person is reported, with alarmist terminology and a general tone of doomsday and blame.
For the record, I believe in full transparency. The incidence of any such reaction should be released but it must be released in context and without the sensationalist language used by journalists who should simply be reporting rather than trying to be medical experts - which they are not. Journalists are not releasing the incidences of every single COVID-19 patient with CVT/PVT. They're not releasing the incidences of every side effect (including ones with a moderate risk of a moribund outcome) in every medication, or as a result of every sickness, or as a result of people travelling or drinking certain things or eating certain foods. That would of course be absurd - but it does highlight just how much of a sideshow some of the vaccine reporting has become. It's irresponsible, misleading, illogical, ill-founded, non-specialist, and pandering to the lowest common denominator.
DISCLAIMER: In the interests of full transparency, I was given the unexpected opportunity to be vaccinated with AstraZeneca, and I have taken it without hesitation. It's been more than a month since that first dose, and if I suffered any side effects at all, it was fatigue. I cannot even say with certainty that the fatigue was linked to the vaccine, as there are many reasons why I might be/have been exhausted.
on 22-05-2021 05:05 AM
Yes .... I work in the health industry, 36 yrs now.
For 5 of the past 6 years, I’ve also been teaching, in the health care industry, but Covid-19 shut that down, so I am back to working full time again 1 year now, in Nursing, for NSW Health, a very rewarding career.
But I’m no expert in vaccines, nor do I claim to be.... but I trust those who do and are, over the folk who claim to know everything, on these eBay discussion threads. 😉
Your info was a very interesting read. Thank you for posting that. 💋
I marvel at how many folk just flat out believe everything the media tells them, or what they read in a magazine/ newspaper/ fb story etc..... it makes the mind boggle.
I also experienced enormous tiredness from my AZ vaccine (for approx 3 weeks), plus general body aches and pains, that I didn’t normally have. All side effects have now resolved. I don’t know if they will return with the follow up injection.
22-05-2021 01:18 PM - edited 22-05-2021 01:21 PM
@janeababe wrote:Oh Jesus Christ on a stick with pumpkin..... here we go again!!!! 🤦🏻♀️
Please tell me 4C.... what is it about World Wide PANDEMIC that you don’t understand?
And I’d love to be made privy of when you graduated from uni with a medical science degree, You know, since you seem to think you have all the right info needed to prevent/cure/ rid us of covid-19.
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?????
That's not the way I would use the name of Jesus.
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@janeababe wrote:All hail 4C .... he can single handedly save the world crisis!
We ALL know you don’t like the vaccine. We ALL know what you feel about this govt. We ALL know you think there are bigger conspiracies at play here, world domination of a sorts..... that’s ok. Because of your constant vigilance on this matter, I have built up quite a supply of tinfoil, in prep for dooms day! 😐... (tongue in cheek, for those in the back row listening to yappy rat dogs 🤭)
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What I like and don't like you are not in the know of. I have already stated several times that I am not anti-vaccination and that I believe that some are helpful.
Ahh, the "I have built up quite a supply of tinfoil, in prep for dooms day! " thing. I'll try to ignore that and "We ALL know you think there are bigger conspiracies at play here, world domination of a sorts..... " and go forth.
So with this vaccine, I am in agreement with many honest medical professionals who are concerned about an accepted standard being ignored. I'm talking about the years, sometimes between five to ten years for a vaccine to be proven safe. I just post here what they (these respected professionals) have said on accepted platforms.
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@janeababe wrote:
I agree with springy. Returning travellers should be vaccinated, and quarantined ... but I’d like to see quarantine extended to 21 days instead of 14!
What price for life, hey? Is 2-3 weeks and 2 injections so terrible a price to pay?
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I agree with springyzone about the quarantine part. What I don't support is mandatory vaccinations. I respect those who want to be vaccinated as much as I do those who don't.
Vaccinated people can still pass virus.
There are effective early stage treatments for this particular corona virus. Proven to work. They are the "First used" in various countries and used to great success. Lives are saved!
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@janeababe wrote:And don’t you dare start on all this blood clot side effect drama that the media is blowing up out of proportion. Unlike the media, I actually research my information from reputable websites (unlike the ones in almost all of your links, I’d like to add). Are you aware, that in Australia alone, there are approximately 30,000 cases of blood clots reported and medically treated each year. So pardon me if 24 post covid clots, doesn’t raise red flags for me, considering Australia has vaccinated approx 3.4mil heads to date! (With approx 91,000 having received both injections, to date). Any other severe reactions, while undesirable, are purely unfortunate. EVERY medical procedure has risks. EVERY SINGLE ONE, even a simple removal of a cataract can have undesirable consequences (as I very well know) ....
So, for the sake of world wide sanity..... I ask you to get of the band wagon! You don’t have the qualifications to preach your ill researched nonsense nor the openness to give a non-biased opinion. JUST STOP! Please & thank you 🙏
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There are blood clots that have resulted from the vaccinations. Fact! Due to that, there has been a shift in policy with regard to what group of people gets what kind of vaccination. There have also been deaths. while very tragic and while I feel deeply for the people who have had bad reactions to the vaccine(s), my concern is that we are sill dealing with largely untested vaccine .
Right, so it's the "I actually research my information from reputable websites (unlike the ones in almost all of your links, I " thing now. Yes, that's been tried on me before and it fell flat on it's face. Over 90% of my links are on accepted platforms and are to either interviews, reports or essays by medical professionals and scientists or other professional people working in a particular industry.
Yes, you are right with "EVERY medical procedure has risks.". However medical procedures relating to the removal of a cataract and similar have years of history and the risks are well documented. And what to do in case of something going wrong has a long history. Any vaccine that falls way outside of an accepted testing time is an unknown quantity. This should then be a choice that is made by the person who weighs it all up. Given time, I may change my view on the vaccine as far as my personal choice goes. But I would never expect someone else to have it forced on them or be in a situation that they are blocked from returning home unless they take it.
Australia is a huge country and there are many potentials, opportunities for quarantine. We have places that can be used to quarantine people other than in city hotels. There could be business / employment opportunities too.
I don't get my info from Facebook, off the wall or from nonsense organizations like Q etc.. I listen to professionals. I believe that this virus causes harm. I don't deny that we are in a bad situation either,
on 22-05-2021 01:35 PM
Firstly - why not make it 100% of trusted platforms.
Any vaccine that falls way outside of an accepted testing time is an unknown quantity.
Just what do you term ' an accepted testing time ' - does it not occur to you - given - this is a global pandemic - worldwide - laboratories went in full blast to find a vaccine.
Dropping whatever was being worked on previously - to find this preventative.
Explain your idea of accepted ' time '.
22-05-2021 01:38 PM - edited 22-05-2021 01:43 PM
@springyzone, I'd like to give further clarification on a previous post I made.
I stand by what I said about the incompetence of this current administration. I do believe that for all of his faults and those of Labour too, Kevin Rudd would have been able to handle this situation with a degree of professionalism that is lacking in the current admin. There are various reasons for this. I believe the antics of a certain previous PM were an indication of the disregard to any residual integrity they (the Libs) had. And I'm not talking about Abbott or Turnbull either. The example I used with the war in Iraq is just to indicate where they were at. The incompetence is still the same. When Australia was ablaze, the PM was holidaying in Hawaii. His reaction was ...... Well, need I say more! Now we have to put our faith in him to deal with this?
Rudd was the last real PM Australia had and even though Turnbull had his occasional moments, Rudd was the man. What I have seen has been echoed by Labour and incompetence isn't an unfair tag to use.
I don't like Albanese but at times some of the things he says things do make sense
on 22-05-2021 01:47 PM
Hello - it's 2021.
on 22-05-2021 01:49 PM
Only in the real world, Dom
on 22-05-2021 02:03 PM
Just answering Sandy as the last post.
Isn't this thread getting off topic?
Thread title - Why block Indian flights instead of USA flights ?