obscure coin law let a shop refuse service

[davidc4430]

An obscure coin law let a shop refuse service to an Adelaide mum. Here are others you may not know

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-04/obscure-coin-laws-that-made-a-petrol-station-refuse-service/1...

[lyhargr_0]

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@springyzone wrote:

No one  (and no law) says that a person can't use coins.

All that the law is saying is that a retailer can, if they wish, put a limit on the maximum number of coins to accept at any one time.

That's sounds fair enough to me.

I don't move in wealthy circles, I know plenty of people who aren't flush with funds but in my experience, very few of them only have coins to rely on.

And even if they did, no one is saying they can't use those coins, just that when paying only in coins, they do it in moderation.

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As a single mum ( no child support ) wil 3 teenagers to feed n clothe, they were plenty of times when all I had were a few coins to get me through to the next payday. Many of my friends were in a similar situation, we all got by as best we could, be it with coin or nothing. No eptpos back then ( shock, horror )

These days I rarely carry cash at all, a few $$$ to pay my egg ,man n thats it, I use eftpos for everything, much safer n easier than carrying cash around

[davidc4430]

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@bright.ton42 wrote:

Where have I been?

I've never heard of this law in my life, duh.

I just naturally assumed that all cash is acceptable.

Thinking about it, it's not a bad law.

Being stuck behind someone in a queue who starts counting  out all their small change to the cashier  is frustrating.  . 

I rarely   offer a lot of small change anyway but usually when I have the cashier says they are grateful for it, tho this would be in  small shops.   

The  thing that really irritates me are the 5 cent coins.  So small and hard to get hold of in the purse   (like the  2 cent coins)..   

 .     

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i think its an ok law if someone rocks up with a sack of 5 and 10 cent pieces to pay a larg bill, but 20 50cent pieces i cant accept as unreasonable. i could count 20 50cent pieces in under 1 minute i rekon if i tried.

[imastawka]

In this instance, I think it all boils down to there being not enough room in the till drawer to accommodate 20  50cent pieces.

I've stood behind ancient old people trying to find the correct amount of coins to pay,

only to find they don't have enough and then drag out a note anyway.

" I reckon I've got enough schrapnel to pay for that"       dig, dig, dig

"Oh no,  guess not "   

[davidc4430]

i guess we all know its just a matter of time until there will be no coins, and then notes will be on their way out too.

[not_for_sale2025]

"I think you need to move away from labelling anyone here as 'unreasonable' as such, although the woman was obviously full of visions of her own rights and needs and didn't think of others".

I didn't raise the issue of unreasonableness, you did.

"The limits are there for a reason. I doubt they have to be invoked  very often as most people use common sense, but the law needs to be there so the merchant isn't at the mercy of anyone unreasonable".

While you may believe the Act does not need a rethink, I now think it does. It was enacted in 1965 in preparation for the introduction of decimal currency. Much has changed in the 53+ years since then. Unemployment, poverty, the number of aging people, disabled people, mentally ill people etc are all current issues of great concern and those people now need to be taken into consideration with this Act.

It is not just about protecting the merchant from being at the mercy of anyone unreasonable, perceived customer rudeness, or conclusions that such customers are full of visions of their own rights and needs and don't think of others. It concerns me that we still form such judgements. The issue is very much about these types of judgements and how they impact on disadvantaged people who are struggling. Surely in the 53+ years that have passed we have grown to recognise that we must try to enforce changes that take into consideration the needs and limitations of all Australians.

My point is that maybe it is time to review the Act with consideration of the current needs and limitations of all members of society in 2019 in addition to the rights and entitlements of the merchant. Not all people who want/need to purchase with change are doing so because they are unreasonable.

[lyhargr_0]

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@imastawka wrote:

In this instance, I think it all boils down to there being not enough room in the till drawer to accommodate 20  50cent pieces.

I've stood behind ancient old people trying to find the correct amount of coins to pay,

only to find they don't have enough and then drag out a note anyway.

" I reckon I've got enough schrapnel to pay for that"       dig, dig, dig

"Oh no,  guess not "   

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Guess it depends how patient people are, needing to wait a few more mins while a person searched for some change wouldnt bother me at all.        ......  Define "ancient"  lol

[lyhargr_0]

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@not_for_sale2025 wrote:

"I think you need to move away from labelling anyone here as 'unreasonable' as such, although the woman was obviously full of visions of her own rights and needs and didn't think of others".

I didn't raise the issue of unreasonableness, you did.

"The limits are there for a reason. I doubt they have to be invoked  very often as most people use common sense, but the law needs to be there so the merchant isn't at the mercy of anyone unreasonable".

While you may believe the Act does not need a rethink, I now think it does. It was enacted in 1965 in preparation for the introduction of decimal currency. Much has changed in the 53+ years since then. Unemployment, poverty, the number of aging people, disabled people, mentally ill people etc are all current issues of great concern and those people now need to be taken into consideration with this Act.

It is not just about protecting the merchant from being at the mercy of anyone unreasonable, perceived customer rudeness, or conclusions that such customers are full of visions of their own rights and needs and don't think of others. It concerns me that we still form such judgements. The issue is very much about these types of judgements and how they impact on disadvantaged people who are struggling. Surely in the 53+ years that have passed we have grown to recognise that we must try to enforce changes that take into consideration the needs and limitations of all Australians.

My point is that maybe it is time to review the Act with consideration of the current needs and limitations of all members of society in 2019 in addition to the rights and entitlements of the merchant. Not all people who want/need to purchase with change are doing so because they are unreasonable.

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Exactly   .... no one knows what is going to happen in the future, we "may" become that person who lives from week to week and need to pay for our milk/bread using all the coin we can find, cause thats all we have atm

[springyzone]

But no one (and no law) says that a person can't use coins to buy their milk & bread.

All the law says is that there can be a limit to how much coin is used at one time.

So if you're thinking of your little old aged pensioner wandering in to buy 2 litres of milk & a loaf of bread or two, they will be fine.

If they want to buy 10 litres of milk & 5 loaves of bread though with 20c & 50c & 5c coins, a shopkeeper has the right to say no.

I think we need to be realistic. This isn't a law that is ever invoked very often & it doesn't need to be invoked often. Most people use common sense. Those who do have coins & decide to use a few usually do so for smaller amounts. Even counting out $2 in mixed small coins can take a minute or so.

And a lot of talk here has centred on the poor. In my experience the poor are just as likely to have a mix of coins, notes and credit cards in their purses as anyone else. Maybe not as much, but still a mix. In fact i think the bigger problem in shops is not that those who are struggling are trying to buy lots of things with coins & getting knocked back. I think it is that so many people these days tend to put everything on cards & cash isn't used as much at all these days. Credit card debt is a much bigger problem than any limit on coin amounts.

[not_for_sale2025]

It is clear to me that our points of view are not going to merge.

Yes, I have chosen to consider the poor and disadvantaged with respect to this Act, because they are relevant. But I am not just “thinking of your little old aged pensioner wandering in”. I am thinking  of all people who are struggling financially, including the families that have been affected by unemployment, young people and those who are disabled and whose finances are managed by the Public Trustee or a guardian.

Believe me, I am being “realistic”. The purses you are referring to must be very different to the purses I have witnessed. The number of people doing it hard in Australia is alarming. They are customers too.

But perhaps what disappoints me the most is the ongoing intolerance some of us seem to have when coming across them in the community, or when considering rights and responsibilities. Many still regard them as societal pests and nuisances. I know poor people who dread going to Woolworths or Coles because of the past attitudes toward them at the checkout when they searched for their money or took too long to count it.

As I stated, I would like to see the Act reviewed with consideration of all persons, including the average and 'reasonable' person, those with different needs and limitations and the rights and responsibilities of the merchant. If the Act remains unchanged, then who will be expected to become more reasonable? I think that's where our opinions differ.

[lyhargr_0]

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@springyzone wrote:

But no one (and no law) says that a person can't use coins to buy their milk & bread.

All the law says is that there can be a limit to how much coin is used at one time.

So if you're thinking of your little old aged pensioner wandering in to buy 2 litres of milk & a loaf of bread or two, they will be fine.

If they want to buy 10 litres of milk & 5 loaves of bread though with 20c & 50c & 5c coins, a shopkeeper has the right to say no.

I think we need to be realistic. This isn't a law that is ever invoked very often & it doesn't need to be invoked often. Most people use common sense. Those who do have coins & decide to use a few usually do so for smaller amounts. Even counting out $2 in mixed small coins can take a minute or so.

And a lot of talk here has centred on the poor. In my experience the poor are just as likely to have a mix of coins, notes and credit cards in their purses as anyone else. Maybe not as much, but still a mix. In fact i think the bigger problem in shops is not that those who are struggling are trying to buy lots of things with coins & getting knocked back. I think it is that so many people these days tend to put everything on cards & cash isn't used as much at all these days. Credit card debt is a much bigger problem than any limit on coin amounts.

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You and I are never going to agree   ..... so I will leave it    ..... You obviously know very different "poor" people to me