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wilk1149 · ‎18-02-2015

Does it actually achieve anything. Maybe the government could save all the money spent on the police force by letting the public self regulate

chameleon54 · ‎18-02-2015

As I have mentioned in other posts my teenage son has quite severe mental health issues. Due to this I have had regular insights into the life of a group of young people who are verging on homelessness, suicide, drug use, absenteesim from school and ongoing mild to severe mental health problems. I transport them around, talk to them and occasionally give them somewhere to stay if kicked out of home. This included a 15 year old girl this last weekend. She was temporarily homeless.

I can assure you for this group, police harrassment and violence is a regular occurance. This includes one young teenager recently being capsicum sprayed in similar circumstances to the recent media coverage that caused outrage in recent weeks. I have personally witnessed several of these "incidents" myself. Not all police are like this. Many are excellent caring proffessionals. BUT there is a very large percent ( maybe 20% at a wild guess ) who are thugs, bullies and not acting proffesionally at all.

wilk1149 · ‎18-02-2015

Exactly my point. We know self regulation doesn't work yet ever mire right wing governments allow big business to self regulate

creative*crisis · ‎18-02-2015

@chameleon54 wrote:
As I have mentioned in other posts my teenage son has quite severe mental health issues. Due to this I have had regular insights into the life of a group of young people who are verging on homelessness, suicide, drug use, absenteesim from school and ongoing mild to severe mental health problems. I transport them around, talk to them and occasionally give them somewhere to stay if kicked out of home. This included a 15 year old girl this last weekend. She was temporarily homeless.

I can assure you for this group, police harrassment and violence is a regular occurance. This includes one young teenager recently being capsicum sprayed in similar circumstances to the recent media coverage that caused outrage in recent weeks. I have personally witnessed several of these "incidents" myself. Not all police are like this. Many are excellent caring proffessionals. BUT there is a very large percent ( maybe 20% at a wild guess ) who are thugs, bullies and not acting proffesionally at all.

I'm perfectly willing to accept what you say as true which is why I did not try to discredit Joanies personal experience.

I just don't like the idea that all police are tarred with the same brush as I know from personal experience there some very dedicated and caring people doing a frequently difficult job.

I hope the bad apples are not as high as the 20% you suggest but you'd be in a better positin to estimate than I.

myoclon1cjerk · ‎18-02-2015

Self regulation gave us the GFC.

chameleon54 · ‎18-02-2015

Softail-Joanie, I dont doubt your experiences for a second and admire your courage in sharing your story with us. You have experienced a side of life that so many of us never see.

Creative *crisis - I agree with you that many, many police are trying their best to do a fair and proffesional job in often extremly difficult circumstances. I suspect the minority that bend the rules, use excessive force, lie to their superiors and the courts etc. probably have a tendency to treat their policing counterparts in a similar, bullying way. My guess of 20% of officers acting in this way is high, but is my best guess unfortunatley and I dont think it is exagerated. Often when incidents occur it is only one officer who is the aggressor, but their partners say nothing and do nothing to intervene. I expect the occupation of policing requires a strong ethic of "officers having each others backs" and looking after each other on all occasions. This is perfectly understandable but leaves the door open for highly aggresive, bullying officers to get away with unproffesional conduct as the force and the court system just close ranks as a self protective mechanism.

As a white, anglo saxon, mature aged male with a job, a reasonable car and a neat home, I never experienced, or saw any hints of the police underbelly. I did not know it existed and dismissed occasional media reports as "one off" isolated events. I have even supervised juvinile offenders in the past, doing court ordered community service and still did know how the "other side" of policing operates.

It was not untill my own son became one of a group of powerless, marginilised members of society that I actually saw the police underbelly at work. As a parent I find it quite frightning as you never know when your child will become a victim of overzelous police brutallity.

creative*crisis · ‎18-02-2015

A society should be judged on how it treats it's neediest and weakest members. I wonder how we would stand up to scrutiny in that regard.

chameleon54 · ‎18-02-2015

Just a few more random thoughts.

Maybe my 20% figure of officers who bend the rules is large, because it is these officers who harrass and interfere with marginilised people on a regular basis and these are the ones I see. Maybe there are many other officers who just leave people alone if they are not doing anything wrong.

As a society we expect our police officers to stand up to dangerous criminals, drug cartels, bikies etc. This would require some pretty hard and tough characters who may not always do things exactly as the highly politicised, politically correct rule book says. We want and need these guys on our side, not thiers and sometimes the line can be fairly fine and easily crossed.

This is a completely different story to community policing where officers are often dealing with highly distressed, vulnerable and marginilised people. I suppose the "hard nuts" in the force doing the really dangerous work have to come from somewhere.

creative*crisis · ‎18-02-2015

@chameleon54 wrote:
Just a few more random thoughts.

Maybe my 20% figure of officers who bend the rules is large, because it is these officers who harrass and interfere with marginilised people on a regular basis and these are the ones I see. Maybe there are many other officers who just leave people alone if they are not doing anything wrong.

As a society we expect our police officers to stand up to dangerous criminals, drug cartels, bikies etc. This would require some pretty hard and tough characters who may not always do things exactly as the highly politicised, politically correct rule book says. We want and need these guys on our side, not thiers and sometimes the line can be fairly fine and easily crossed.

This is a completely different story to community policing where officers are often dealing with highly distressed, vulnerable and marginilised people. I suppose the "hard nuts" in the force doing the really dangerous work have to come from somewhere.

Thank you for your thoughts, unfortunately i think we don't often enough get to hear about the other side of the coin, so to speak unless, like you we are in a unique position to do so.

As a parent myself I can only say, I don't envy you your situation, there is nothing harder than watching your own child suffer .

I wish you both the best.