Item Lost in the Post. Do I refund buyer?

[onyxbutterfly2912]

Hi all,  My buyer is intimating that I never posted her item.  Because it was sent Standard Postage, I can't even give her a tracking number. What do others do in these cases?  It has happened to me several times now and one even went into dispute via Paypal.  Long and short of it I had to refund her money and I was out of pocket for postage for two items and the two items  themselves worth approx $100.

Although you can put into your listing a note to say you are not responsible for Australia Post losing something, the buyer does not really care.  They just want their item or their money.

All thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks a lot

[tall_bearded]

Change of plans. Was going be spending the next two weeks moving house by Murphy has intervened.

“... however I have a much wider understanding of policy instruments and their application down the line, than you seem to be able to understand”.

as you say you have a wide understanding of policy instruments...

Is it not the case that a policy cannot bind a third party without that parties consent and if that consent involves contracting out of a right conferred by statue, not only must the consent be informed (not obtained by stealth or hidden in the fine print) but it must also provide the third party with consideration of equal or greater value in return.

Now if you agree with above what does the absence of consideration have when it comes to enforcement of PayPal’s policy as what constitutes proof of shipment?

[thecatspjs]

Don't you mean a contract ??

Public policy can not bind anyone to anything - it is about intent. Policy instruments such as legislation and regulation are used to enact the policy's intent.

[thecatspjs]

TB we could tic tac back and forth, but I think it comes done to this for me.

Your arguments appear to me to be grounded in the technicalities of legislation and its interaction with other frameworks.

Mine are grounded in the intent of legislation or other instruments used to enact the public policy in the first place. 

Paypal has a range of obligations to a range of legislative frameworks, and in relation to proof of post - I reckon that the requirement is there not to make life harder for sellers, but rather, due to Paypal's and sellers consumer protection obligations and that's fine by me.

[tall_bearded]

Now I understand.

As a past advocate for the South Australian WorkCover Corporation I wish I had a dollar for every time I attended a conciliation conference and heard the words, not in the public interest, or in accordance with the intent behind the legislation, or the outcome is unfair; and I can still remember my usual response.

‘I’m here as an advocate to argue this case on the facts as is see them and with regard to the legislation as it stands, and what the authorities say the words contained within are to be interpreted.  Now if you believe this provides for an unjust outcome, then leave this place and go to that big grey building on the corner of North Terrace and King William Street and plead your case for change; and if they agree change is in order and actually do something about it, then, I’ll be more than happy to concede the application.  Until then, you are backing a loser, but if you want to want to press on, see you at arbitration’.

That is I’m an advocate not a lobbyist.  As such I deal with the legislation as it is, and not how think it should be and this is the way it should be.

[thecatspjs]

breakthrough 🙂

... but please don't assume lobbyist 😮 there are other roles where you come in touch with public policy making and implementation

[onyxbutterfly2912]

@ the catspjs

"I reckon that the requirement is there not to make life harder for sellers, but rather, due to Paypal's and sellers consumer protection obligations and that's fine by me."

That last sentence of yours seems to be missing an object after "objections".  While reading it I suddenly felt like I had inadvertently stepped off a cliff. Even after reading over several times I was still not sure what you meant.  Were you typing so fast that you left out a thought?

Just wondering? ?:|

[jonnn2004]

Yep , I wouldn't expect a refund either if seller has top feedback has sold heaps of items and has been communicating with me..

This just happened to me, buyer said they never received item - value -$27, sent by normal post the day after payment.. She was friendly at first, I offered half her money back plus extra items,I asked if she was happy with that? She opened a paypal case for full refund..As I was waiting for a response from the offer I gave her- She then gives me negative feedback for not closing her paypal case straight away...( I would have been happy to close the case if she let me know what was going on)

Even when you have over a  1000 positive sales, the seller has no protection if not registered post..Which is seriously annoying for buyer and seller- I hate missing a small registered item and have to get public transport to get the item which sometimes isn't worth the ticket price!

Funny, I complained to Ebay, who pretty much agreed with me saying it's very unfair from her, removed her negative comment..( but not the feedback)..

I sent her a please revise feedback form, she just revised it as negative again..And wouldn't reply to my messages.

[davewil1964]

Standard post, regardless of what TB says, puts at least a moral obligation on the seller to refund. If you had have just refunded straight away you would not have got the buyer offside. Look at it from their POV - they paid for something which they did not receive, then you only offer a partial refund plus items they may or may not want. Not, I would guess, given they opened a dispute - probably the response I would have given you, too.

[howie696]

Yep , I wouldn't expect a refund either if seller has top feedback has sold heaps of items and has been communicating with me..

This just happened to me, buyer said they never received item - value -$27, sent by normal post the day after payment.. She was friendly at first, I offered half her money back plus extra items,I asked if she was happy with that? She opened a paypal case for full refund..As I was waiting for a response from the offer I gave her- She then gives me negative feedback for not closing her paypal case straight away...( I would have been happy to close the case if she let me know what was going on)

Even when you have over a  1000 positive sales, the seller has no protection if not registered post..Which is seriously annoying for buyer and seller- I hate missing a small registered item and have to get public transport to get the item which sometimes isn't worth the ticket price!

Funny, I complained to Ebay, who pretty much agreed with me saying it's very unfair from her, removed her negative comment..( but not the feedback)..

I sent her a please revise feedback form, she just revised it as negative again..And wouldn't reply to my messages.

You could not have tried harder to get that negative

[sigmatraders]

Yes. You have to refund the money back to your customer. Otherwise you will receive the negative feedback . It is better you send your parcel by registered , click and send or eparcel service which provide the tracking service. Then you will never lost it.