Item broken by Australia Post - need some advice!

[lyndalpn-cows]

Okay needing some advice

I sold an item (a radio) to a fellow and posted it off - double wrapped in bubble wrap, packed with lots of packing and inside an Aussie Post box and it has apparently arrived badly damaged.  The box is intact from the photos I have seen but the plastic casing is wrecked and not surpisingly the radio doesnt work. the item number is 261186439014 if that helps.

I sent the item registered post and have the lodgement receipt. (and ended up paying $13 more to post it than he paid for the postage due to me miscalculating the charges! ARgh)  I have advised the fellow he needs to take it to the post office with the packaging and put in a claim form. 

The buyer has responded today to say that he will not be taking it to the Post office but will be sending it back to me and is demanding a refund.  That it is my item and my responsibility to sort out nd that he wants the refund he is entitled to.  As far as I see it it is only my item until it is posted....

According to the registered post  lodgement advice it says

"The addressee has the sole right to claim after accepting delivery of the article"

So... the way I see it I have a couple of options

1. Is a refund and lose my money - this is a $125 radio so not a small amount.

2. Refuse to refund and most likely get a negative feedback.

What do you advise I do?  Am I correct in my ststament that he must make the claim?  Im starting to think that its the prinicple of the thing and I dont care all that much (well not $125 worth) about a negative feedback?  If It was a small item I would just refund and move on, but frankly his last email was stroppy and a bit rude.

[bsal6160]

The buyer has every right to expect the item to arrive AS SHOWN on your listing. The amount of sellers who put that statement in their listing about all care but no responsibility is just staggering. It is enough to make me hit the back button as soon as I see it.

Why would you not just refund? The item they received is NOT the item they bought. It would be like you lay-buying an item in a b&m store and when you to pick it up it is something different then the store saying "Sorry just take what I have given you and don't complain that its not what you actually paid for"

[phorum_junkie*]

I have said it many times before but bubble wrap can be what causes the damage, if it is wrapped fairly tightly round the item then the air in the bubbles can expand in the heat of a delivery van and crush the contents.

It is much better to first wrap in some light foam or similar that can absorb any expansion and cushion the item.

Double boxing can be the lightest way to post if you cushion the item in foam in one box then place it in a bigger one with packing beads all round. No bubble wrap and if done well the parcel can be dropped from shoulder height and withstand 20kgs being dropped on top of it which is what AP consider adequate packaging.

[***super_nova***]

You will of course be told that it needs to be packaged to withstand 20kg dropped from waist height, but of course, as yet AP have not actually advised anyone how this can be achieved, short of a titanium box 😞

The way it can be achieved is that it has to be protected against impact (sturdy box) and than against shock (being dropped and just breaking up).  Anything with fragile components should have protective padding placed inside, then wrapped in couple of layers of bubble wrap, then placed in a box with couple of inches space around.  The space needs to be filled with shock absorbing material - the best according to studies is scrunched up newspaper.  Then this box should be placed inside another box (sturdy box that will not be crushed) with bit of a space around, which again needs to be filled with more shock absorbing material.  Some people like poly peanuts, but they can move and might all end up on one side, leaving the other side unprotected.  The item must not be able to move around.

[lyndalpn-cows]

hmjmmm lots of food for thought.  @patchoo78 yeah to be honest I had the same thought that it seemed weird that it is pretty smashed up with an intact box? My first email back to the guy didnt say that I would or wouldnt refund, i said that he needed to take to the post office and claim for dmaage, and to let me know how he went and keep me in the loop so we could disucss.  His repsonse to me was pretty narky after that saying he would not do that, it was my responsibility not his problem and he wants the refund he is entitled to.

And patchoo you're quite right it is very unusual.  In six months of selling breakable collectables I have had one handle break off a china tea cup in transit, however it had a hairline crack to start with and I was able to replace it with another item so the buyer was happy.  The only other issue I have had is one of my very first purchases the fellow said he didnt like the item and wanted to return it, but when it got back to me it was cracked badly (a silver teapot) and this couldnt have happened in transit.  I believe he dropped it, panicked and sent it back.  That was 6 months ago and I learned a lot from then.... and actually put the caveat about responsibility for posted items in my listings based on advice at the time, but I can see that doesnt mean much.

Its hard to know how to approach this

[chezzy]

Personally I feel a PO at the addressee's end should be sighting/assessing the item/damage. An enquiry/claim should be lodged. Sure the buyer can send item back to you, what if it arrives in WORSE condition? Seems silly. I like the sample letter by Super Nova (?). If it was me I'd be on the phone to AP explaining the situation (and mention you used AP packaging etc etc etc) but that the recipient doesn't want to take it to the PO to be sighted?? Find out what your options are. I thought PM'26s (if they still call them that) could be lodged by either party?

[lyndalpn-cows]

@bsal - Look the only reasoning I am questioning this is that when it happened with the silver teapot (although I still am suspicious that it was broken by the buyer)  I was told by so many people on the forum that it was not my repsonsibility and I was crazy to refund etc etc.so I thought I'd better see what you guys thought. I guess its just crappy to be out of pocket $125+ postage when I cant even try to claim it back and he potentially could at least try.  If he went to AP and they said no, I had thought I would probably just refund him at that point, I was just shocked that he wouldnt even attempt to seek a claim.

I guess I thought I should seek advice her from more experienced sellers on how to approach it.  I do appreciate the packing advice thank you - I guess I underestimated the fragility of the radio.  As i said I send heaps of china and glass, only use AP boxes and hey I got a porcelain figurine all the way to a buyer in Germany in one piece last month!

[lyndalpn-cows]

@chezzy - supernovas email is very similar to what I asked him to do and he said he would not do that. Ringing AP is a good idea. According to the notice of lodgment slip I have it says only the addressee can claim for damage.

[2106greencat]

The way it can be achieved is that it has to be protected against impact (sturdy box) and than against shock (being dropped and just breaking up).  Anything with fragile components should have protective padding placed inside, then wrapped in couple of layers of bubble wrap, then placed in a box with couple of inches space around.  The space needs to be filled with shock absorbing material - the best according to studies is scrunched up newspaper.  Then this box should be placed inside another box (sturdy box that will not be crushed) with bit of a space around, which again needs to be filled with more shock absorbing material.  Some people like poly peanuts, but they can move and might all end up on one side, leaving the other side unprotected.  The item must not be able to move around.

Good advice Nova, no doubt about it. However 20kg, dropped from waist high - would total even your well packed item. AP's stand on this is laughable. And they are not on their own, there is not a freight company in the country that doesn't have a 'package safe damage disclosure' written into their contract.

[chezzy]

Yep ring AP, do it! They may send you out an enquiry/claim form. I haven't seen one for a long time but they used to be green and known as PM26 forms. Not sure if there is a version available online, would not know where to look in the maze of internet.

[lyndalpn-cows]

Ok. Spoken to Australia Post.  They said that I can make the claim as long as he send everything (including the original box) back.  Happy to refund him when it arrives.