Item refunded due to non delivery but has been returned to me.

[sardonicus001]

I sold a CD to a buyer in Norway on 11th March and shipped it the same day. On 8th April he complained that it hadn't arrived and PayPal gave him a complete refund. I have checked and ascertained that I posted it to the address he gave me. The returned item bears a sticker stating that it has been returned unclaimed. The CD was only $13 however the postage was $32, meaning that whilst I have the CD I have lost $32 in postage. Can Discogs do anything about this or is it a matter for PayPal?

[sardonicus001]

You are missing the point. I will break it down into simple points.

1. The buyer paid the $32 postage into my account.

2. I used that payment of $32 to pay for the shipping label (so far we agree).

3. I refunded the $32 to the buyer, meaning that he didn't pay for the postage.

4. I was not refunded the $32 by Australia Post. Ipso facto, my original payment to Australia Post came from my account which was not replenished.

It is point 4 which you have not taken into account. If you persist in insisting that I did not lose $32, who paid Australia Post?

Perhaps we need a referee.

[repentatleisure1952]

dave... trying to explain facts to the OP will result in a headache.

[davewil1964]

Perhaps you need to understand Year 1 Maths.

How much did the TOTAL transaction end up costing you? Something you seem to be unwilling to provide the answer to.

I'll bet eBay fees, not your mysterious $32 postage, that the seller paid.

[davewil1964]

It is point 4 which you have not taken into account. If you persist in insisting that I did not lose $32, who paid Australia Post?

Your buyer, through the funds they paid you for postage.

[sardonicus001]

"Your buyer, through the funds they paid you for postage."

My buyer paid me for the postage originally, it is true, but I gave him back the $32 when I refunded him the cost of the item AND the postage. In other words, he didn't pay for anything as he received everything he had paid back as a refund.

The total amount the transaction cost me was $13 +$32 which if I calculate correctly is $45. I was not unwilling to disclose the total amount as I assumed that with your mathematical skills you would have been able to work it out yourself.

Can you explain to me in the simplest of terms how the buyer paid for the postage if he received a refund of that amount from my account (i.e. he paid nothing). If you persist in claiming that the buyer paid for the postage you are telling me that he did not, in fact, receive a refund of the postage. It seems pretty straight forward to me.

[sardonicus001]

repentatleisure1952, please refer to my reply to davewill1964 who has not been explaining the "facts" to me. Perhaps you could explain how the buyer has paid for the postage despite the fact that I refunded him that cost. It seems quite straightforward to me. I think your friend would be a better off taking a less combatitive approach and toning down his insulting language.

[sugar249]

To me it seems obvious you are out of pocket,  but some people just don't understand grade 1 maths.  or how things work.

[gutterpunkz05]

So the seller receives  X  for postage.  ]

The seller spends X  for postage  

Seller also  spends X as refund to buyer

Incoming  =  X

Outgoing  = 2X

X  -  2X  =   -X  (Neg X)

Now if  X  =   $32       the seller is in receipt of  -X  or minus $32

To me   $32  minus  $64   =    out of pocket  $32

[gutterpunkz05]

Or,

Buyer  pays  $32 for postage  which is refunded by the seller,  IE they have a zero balance,

AP  still  has  $32

So where did it come from, I have already shown it is not from the buyer

[springyzone]

It seems obvious to me that there is no such thing as free postage.

Auspost didn't handle this item for free.

They charged $32 for it.

And moreover, Auspost has not and will not refund that money because they did the job they were paid for.

So someone has to be out of pocket for that $32. It has to be either the buyer, seller or paypal.

We know the buyer originally paid the $32 to cover postage. But he was given a full refund of $45, meaning that he had the postage component returned to him. So the buyer is not out of pocket.

The refund was given via paypal but I am not getting the vibe they paid it out of their own funds as a peacekeeping gesture. We have been told the refund came out of the seller's funds.

So Paypal is not out of pocket.

That leaves the seller. He was originally given $32 to pay the cost of the postage, which he did. At that stage no, he was not out a single cent, the buyer funds were covering it.

But then the seller lost all those buyer funds, they went back to the buyer. But.. the money had already been spent.  Aus post had the money and they aren't returning it.

There's no such thing as free post so in this case, the seller is out of pocket.

Solution? I doubt if there is one. If the seller initiated the refund himself because the item was late, then it wasn't through a paypal claim as such. Paypal didn't make that business decision, I'm not sure they can be held responsible, though you could always contact them to see where you stand.

Wouldn't have a clue about discogs or the possibility of a refund there.

Although it isn't the seller's fault the item was not picked up, fact remains the buyer didn't get the item and it was returned to seller. Personally, sardonicus, I suspect you will end up wearing the postage loss on this one. Maybe on cheaper items, you might be better off to limit what countries you will post to?