Paypal dispute for pickup item - new rules?

[collectibles_in_canberra]

Sold a large wall unit for pickup only $850  - buyer sent courier to pickup.

He received and then opened a dispute for not as described due to apparent scratches etc  (50 year old unit with scratches, dents etc mentioned in listing).

He demands a $350 refund or we pay the courier costs both ways for him to return the unit.

I was going to escalate it to a Paypal dispute but was wary of how the new Paypal pickup laws work.

I have no faith in Paypal seeing common sense at all.

Anyone had a recent case?

[k1ooo-slr-sales]

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@collectibles_in_canberra wrote:

I am trading as a registered business with ABN

He has escalated it and Paypal are now determining the outcome which can take up to 30 days! 

He is still demanding we pay the $500 courier cost to return the item which he did not pay through Paypal anyway.

I have no faith in Paypal at all - once lost a case where the buyer smashed up a heap of jewellery & watches for the gold & stone content and was able to return it for a refund.

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The maximum exposure you have through the PayPal claim process is the payment that the buyer made.  PayPal can't take more off you than what your received from the buyer.  Having said that, they will/should require the buyer to pay the return costs to you should the buyer insist on a refund.

As far as anything else goes, the fact that the item was listed as pick up only and they organised a courier should count in your favour.  They forfeited the opportunity of inspecting the item before taking possession by organising a courier and paying for it separate from the purchase payment.

Apart from the mention of scratches in your description, your listing description included the following text "Item is available for inspection & pickup at our shop 'Canberra Vintage & Collectible Centre' located 11/90 Barrier Street Fyshwick - Open 7 Days 10am-5pm" which clearly shows that you were prepared to let potential buyers inspect the item before purchasing . . . not the sort of thing included in a description that is intended to deceive!

It might be worthwhile to take screen captures of the listing to show the exact text in the description as well as the postage and handling tab.

Good luck with this, I know many regulars here will watch with interest how this claim goes.

[phorum_junkie*]

I have always found Paypal has come good in the end as long as you use the right approach with them. If you phone them up and explain the facts very clearly they will often agree to find in your favour, If they dn't then you ask to speak to a supervisor, You keep bumping it up the chain until you get someone who really look at what you are saying. Always stay calm and polite, you want them on your side, and always take down the name and employee number of the pereson you speak to as well as noting the time of the call. If after all that Paypal find against you just tell them that unless they replace the funds in your account within 48 hours you will be contacting the FOS.

[screamingdemon_2007]

Obviously there are some holes in Paypal methods,  this incident showing an obvious one.

PICK UP ONLY,    if the buyer had actually done this in person as this method is intended, he would have been able to spot any problems before accepting it... One the spot and face to face is the easy stressfree way to resolve issues like this.

The other problem,  buyer sent a courier to pick-up for him... if the item was in fact damaged in transit how can you be liable?

Personally I dont like the way claims and cases are handled,   buyers who choose to open a case before even contacting the seller really **bleep** me off.  

We are a business, so we have our contact details & phone number in almost every listing.  Why can't people just call,  problems can be solved in sec's rather than days with the msg & msg system.   Which frustrates both partys,  making happy resolutions even harder to acheive....    

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr......

[collectibles_in_canberra]

Paypal has granted his request for a refund.

He must return the item and provide tracking details to them.

The whole system is a bit of a joke.

[allfixelectrical]

Yes the system is a joke and in many ways against Australian law.
The moral of this story is DO NOT accept paypal payments for pickup items under any circumstances.
Also if the item comes back to you in any condition different to that which it was collected in then you should report PayPal to the FOS and report the buyer for fraud and claim damages from the buyer.
I have been on ebay over 14 years and these days I am absolutely disgusted by their behaviour. Most of the things they try to force upon sellers are illegal and when tested as such they buckle quickly. PayPal even more so as they are under the control of the financial ombudsman here in Australia.
There is absolutely no reason that your buyer would be elligible for a refund of any freight charges as the item was collected by an agent of the buyer and as such, by that collection, implies that the collector (ie the freight company) had inspected the item on behalf of the buyer and by accepting it confirm to you the seller that the buyer was satisfied with the purchase.

[*tippy*toes*]

It will be interesting to see whether he's willing to cough up the $500 to return it. As he'll be out of pocket $1,000 just for delivery, he'd be a nut to return it. I wonder if he realises that he has to pay the costs for the return? He never paid you for any costs, so he doesn't get any of that back. All he gets is the purchase price for the pick up item. While you're waiting, jump onto PayPal and find the T&C's where it says the buyer pays for return shipping in the event of a return. That way you've got ammo when he fires back at you for not paying the return costs.

If PayPal does decide to take the return shipping costs, set the FOS onto them because they would be violating their own policies.

[collectibles_in_canberra]

As long as I get it back in the same condition there is no huge drama but the fact Paypal have agreed that the item was not as described really p*sses me off.

Also the return address through Paypal had to be my home address (no way I could change it) so I will need to move it back over to the shop which is a pain in the butt.

I doubt he will send it back.

If the condition is not as he would like it's better to spend the money getting a light restoration.

At least then he has something for his money.

I guess I will find out before the 31st August

[collectibles_in_canberra]

He just cancelled the claim as he didn't want to return the item.

Paypal has reinstated the money so all's good in the end.

Waiting for the negative feedback but can live with that.

Thanks for your input everyone.

Cheers

[imastawka]

Neg left already.  Now the light scratches in the pics have turned into 'VAST DAMAGE'

As the item is listed a pick up only, I'm not sure, but I think ebay may remove

that neg.   Worth a try anyway

[collectibles_in_canberra]

I just tried to reply to it and came up saying 'Feedback error can't reply to feedback you don't have'.

I've never seen that one before.