Too easy to scam sellers as a buyer

[3415len]

So here it is. The absolute 100% proof that eBay don't give a flick about their sellers.

We have been on eBay for many years and have over 10,000+ positive feedback. We are Australian based and we sell engineering tools all over the world.

In September we were scammed by a guy in the UK.

He bought an item that consisted of two parts. Part 1 weigh's 300 grams, part 2 weigh's 400 grams, totaling 700 grams . We sent the item by Australia Post's Registered International service.

We supplied the customer a tracking number, and he emailed us asking where his product was. We told him to use his tracking number and he said they tried to deliver to his company at 1:10am and said he would sort it out.

8 business day's later, he messages us again saying he didn't get Part B of his item.

We found it a bit odd he took this long to tell us, and we quickly assured him we would get to the bottom of this. He told us the parcel had 0 signs of being tampered with.

Upon checking our statement from Australia post, we found that Australia Post weighed the parcel and declared it 700 grams. This means when the parcel left our hands and was received by Australia Post, the article included both Part A & Part B, otherwise the parcel would of weighed less than 700 grams.

The buyer wanted a full refund for his purchase, and when we told him NO and provided document proof of the parcel leaving our hands with both parts inside. He did not accept this and escalated to a claim.

Here's the frustrating thing. He bought the item from OUR AUSTRALIAN eBay shop, yet we had to log in to EBAY UK to sort this out. What kind of rubbish is that. And if we wanted to speak to someone from eBay, it had to be done through the UK. OK that's extremely illogical.

Even after providing the document proof we sent this parcel, he still won the claim.

Currently, we are waiting for the item to arrive in our hands, as he is sending PART A back to us.When the item gets back in our hands, he will be issued a FULL REFUND INCLUDING POST.

Not to mention, all our listings state that we are not responsible for lost / stolen / tampered articles, which is the ONLY possible thing that could of happened if this guy was really telling the truth.

We have contacted 5 different people through phone to eBay about this. You know whats funny? The extreme awkward silence when the eBay employee responds with "I don't know" or "...." when we ask the question "What did we do wrong and how can we stop this from happening ever again"

I think we are well within our rights to say the parcel he is sending back to us never got to us so he does not get his money back.

And eBay, you should be ashamed. Your company policies are actually borderline criminal, your letting people get away with fraud.

So yeah, basically if you want free stuff, just buy things internationally and say you only got half of it. eBay won't do a thing to stop you.

Thanks for reading

[3415len]

"OK, so the 2 items were total 700g, your parcel apparently weighed 700g............  so there was no packaging?"

LOL What????

"What exactly would you want eBay to do?"

Um.. hmm.. such a tough question.. let me think really hard about this one.... OH I GOT IT! HOW ABOUT HELP ME OUT WITH THE SITUATION?? How about looking at the evidence I provided, the LIES and the FALSE STORIES this buyer provided, and the 0 EVIDENCE HE PROVIDED.

"They are just an advertising medium, they set the rules to be as fair as possible and you either are happy to go by these rules or you find other place to trade."

I don't understand how this issue was dealt with fairly in any way shape or form. Where's the fairness from our end? We lose money, half an item + we cop a negative feedback rating for doing the right thing. Ontop of that, we didn't even get an explanation from eBay as to WHY we lost the case.

I think your opinion of the word "fair" differs from most normal people's.

"If you advertised your items in a newspaper and got ripped off, would you also expect the newspaper to "do something". "

Go away with your stupid newspaper analogy's. eBay is not a newspaper, is nothing like a newspaper, and never will be a newspaper. This analogy is STUPID AND WRONG so STOP USING IT. THE NEWSPAPER WOULD NOT REFUND THE BUYER THEIR MONEY WOULD THEY?

If PP, eBay and CCs would not provide buyer protection, many people would not take the risk to buy on line. 

Um people will always buy online no matter what. I'm all for buyer protection but there's a line you need to draw.

Your entire post is stupid, I'm sorry super nova.

[cq_tech]

If PP, eBay and CCs would not provide buyer protection, many people would not take the risk to buy on line. 

With so many different policies covering the different eBay sites worldwide, it doesn't take a Rhodes Scholar to see that the currently available Buyer Protection situation is little more than a dog's breakfast at the moment, and until all eBay & Paypal sites start incorporating the same conditions into all of their BP Policies, things will only deteriorate rather than improve. 😞

If eBay don't begin to standardise all of their Policies very soon, buyers (and therefore sellers) will continue leaving in their droves. For more years than I can remember I've bought approximately 50% of my on-line purchases via eBay. That is now down to less than 10% and is still falling rapidly, and in every case it has been eBay policy changes which have caused me to curtail my spending on this site, and I can foresee a time when I won't be shopping here at all any more.

Do you think eBay really give a toss? I sure don't.

[wishuponastarcelebrationsandgifts]

I would hazard a guess and say just about every seller on ebay (including myself) has been scammed. Many, but not all, of these scams could easily be avoided by implementing appropriate mechanisms. Ebay have made a choice not to do so because at the end of the day the seller bears the cost and to add insult to injury the seller also pays ebay fees for the honour of being subjected to theft.

As Jen has said the reality is that there is no way to avoid being scammed by overseas buyers in these situations. As mentioned in my previous post there is an impossible onus on a seller to prove that the recipient received what was posted. Conversely there is no onus on the buyer to prove that they posted back what they actually received. They could post a brick back to the seller and receive a refund.

Whilst ebay cannot necessarily arbitrate with certainty what was sent/not sent, they can certainly implement some basic features that would enable sellers to identify what they consider to be "high risk" buyers, and put in place blocks for these buyers.

Whilst I say you need to write this off as a loss, I do not say this flippantly. It is just the reality of the situation.

I am often disheartened reading posts on the boards, particularly when advice is given out to just leave a neg, leave low DSR's etc as the first course of action, or that a seller's loss is trivial. I wonder how some buyers would feel if their employer suggested to them they were to be personally liable for the mistakes they make at work; many would be homeless if they were to compensate for the financial loss. Alternatively suggesting that their income be halved because the courier they booked didn't deliver the item on time.

It would be nice to see more of a community spirit and not a division of buyers versus sellers due to the lack of trust that has come about, in part due to poor policies and procedures.

[patchoo78]

The up side is that to send it back by trackable post with proof of delivery, not just proof of posting, will be expensive.

The minimum price I could get for delivery to UK with tracking would have cost $30.. Tracking with Sig would have cost $50-$70 and that was only for a PS3 Game..(Smaller and lighter than a DVD case)

I sent it regular in the end for $12

[***super_nova***]

"OK, so the 2 items were total 700g, your parcel apparently weighed 700g............  so there was no packaging?"

LOL What????

If your 2 items combined weight is 700g and you put them in nice sturdy box, the weight of the parcel would be more than 700g.  I have here nice sturdy cardboard box 30x30x20 and it weighs 400g. 

[3415len]

I rounded off the figures for the purpose of making it easy to understand...hence the perfectly even 00 figures...

I'm happy you have a nice sturdy box that weigh's 400 grams, we have nice sturdy padded bags that weigh 40 grams.

[tall_bearded]

Yes I’m back.  Been on a short holiday because someone took exception to me saying they were wrong.

Hello 3415len, and welcome to the eBay boards where you, as a seller, irrespective of the weight of of the facts you may have in support, will, by some, always be in the wrong,  but not as far as I or some of the more moderate contributors to these boards are concerned.

Firstly you need to understand that eBay.au (Australia) recently changed its User Agreement to the effect that, if you list the item as being available internationally, the sale is said to have occurred on that site onto which the buyer was logged at the time the transaction place.  This means that, as in this instance, though the item was listed on eBay.au it was sold on eBay UK, and as such, the eBay UK Buyer Protection policy, and  not the PayPal Australia Buyer Protection Policy, applies to this transaction.

This translates into, if you sell on eBay and sell to either the UK or the USA, you are putting your  disputation rights into the hands of a person in a call centre somewhere in a third world country, someone who wouldn’t recognise due process and procedural fairness if it walked up and greeted them by the hand.  This is the reason why, I like so many other sellers, though prepared to sell internationally, have specifically blocked all sales to the UK and the USA, and I would recommend you do the same.

As for local sales, you can pretty much disregard those posts which stipulate that your “item not received” disclaimer is unenforceable.  In fact, not only is it enforceable, but it also  reflects the actual legal position.  That is when it come to sales to anywhere in the world excepting for the USA and UK, to protect yourself against an a item not received claim, all you need to prove is you posted it, whereas in connection to sales to the UK and the US, you have to prove they actually received it, and sadly you now have firsthand experience as to how the unscrupulous buyer can manipulate the latter.

[timeless_beauty_australia]

I am so sorry this has happened to you 3415len.  I have had this happen to me a few times and they have all been international buyers.  I completely agree with you and this loophole really needs to be fixed and buyers and sellers alike put onto the same playing field. 

The slant towards buyers is very prominent to the detriment of sellers

I hope you can get a decent result from all of this

[3415len]

Best post tall_bearded, thank you

It is comforting but concerning at the same time that this happens to alot of sellers and not just us.

Blocking all international sales might be the best option. If international buyers want to buy from us, they will have to go through our website.

Losing a small % of sales is worth the stress it saves, as someone previously mentioned before.

[downsizing_2]

I too am sorry you've had such an unpleasant experience. I am also sorry you've had to repeat yourself again and again to make your position clear to those who can't see your point.

I actually had the same thing happen to me a couple of times with buyers from the US. It was only for small amounts so I sent refunds and then immediately stopped selling O/S which of course is easier said than done.

I think the vast majority of buyers are really honest, at least mine are, but at the end of the day, there will always be someone who spoils things for you and you have a perfect right to be upset and want to come on here and ask what you did wrong and warn others.

I'm sorry I can't help you but thank you for your post and I hope you manage to sort it out.