Too easy to scam sellers as a buyer

[3415len]

So here it is. The absolute 100% proof that eBay don't give a flick about their sellers.

We have been on eBay for many years and have over 10,000+ positive feedback. We are Australian based and we sell engineering tools all over the world.

In September we were scammed by a guy in the UK.

He bought an item that consisted of two parts. Part 1 weigh's 300 grams, part 2 weigh's 400 grams, totaling 700 grams . We sent the item by Australia Post's Registered International service.

We supplied the customer a tracking number, and he emailed us asking where his product was. We told him to use his tracking number and he said they tried to deliver to his company at 1:10am and said he would sort it out.

8 business day's later, he messages us again saying he didn't get Part B of his item.

We found it a bit odd he took this long to tell us, and we quickly assured him we would get to the bottom of this. He told us the parcel had 0 signs of being tampered with.

Upon checking our statement from Australia post, we found that Australia Post weighed the parcel and declared it 700 grams. This means when the parcel left our hands and was received by Australia Post, the article included both Part A & Part B, otherwise the parcel would of weighed less than 700 grams.

The buyer wanted a full refund for his purchase, and when we told him NO and provided document proof of the parcel leaving our hands with both parts inside. He did not accept this and escalated to a claim.

Here's the frustrating thing. He bought the item from OUR AUSTRALIAN eBay shop, yet we had to log in to EBAY UK to sort this out. What kind of rubbish is that. And if we wanted to speak to someone from eBay, it had to be done through the UK. OK that's extremely illogical.

Even after providing the document proof we sent this parcel, he still won the claim.

Currently, we are waiting for the item to arrive in our hands, as he is sending PART A back to us.When the item gets back in our hands, he will be issued a FULL REFUND INCLUDING POST.

Not to mention, all our listings state that we are not responsible for lost / stolen / tampered articles, which is the ONLY possible thing that could of happened if this guy was really telling the truth.

We have contacted 5 different people through phone to eBay about this. You know whats funny? The extreme awkward silence when the eBay employee responds with "I don't know" or "...." when we ask the question "What did we do wrong and how can we stop this from happening ever again"

I think we are well within our rights to say the parcel he is sending back to us never got to us so he does not get his money back.

And eBay, you should be ashamed. Your company policies are actually borderline criminal, your letting people get away with fraud.

So yeah, basically if you want free stuff, just buy things internationally and say you only got half of it. eBay won't do a thing to stop you.

Thanks for reading

[tall_bearded]

I’ll take it on face value that front office services for eBay UK are located in Ireland, which I assume is the Irish Republic.  But just because the person you are speaking to is located in Ireland doesn’t mean the service is being performed in Ireland.

Both Claims Processing and Dispute Resolution are back office functions, and I’d think it more likely than not, that unless there are specific laws in the UK which precludes off shore processing, then eBay will do what every other multinational has done/is doing; centralise back office functions and relocate them to a country where wage costs are lower.  That is, just because you’re speaking to someone in Ireland, doesn’t prove that that person is doing anything other than looking at a computer screen to communicate the current status of a dispute - a dispute which is being processed by someone somewhere else; say the Philippines.

[3415len]

here is a message we got today from an ebay staff member. im happy they sent us a personalized message, and it clears things up a little, but it's still extremely disappointing our end.

///

Hello Len,

Thank you for contacting eBay Customer Service about the **** (item 40031*****) you sold to " **" who claimed that it is not as described. I understand that we have ask your buyer to return the item to you. I know this situation has caused you some inconvenience. Be assured that I’d be more than willing to assist you with this

Len, If a buyer opened a case against a seller for item not as described, we will take the buyers word about the condition of the item when they received it. I'd like to remind you that every case here on eBay, sellers are given 8 days to resolve issues and are notified each time an action is taken. When your buyer escalated the case, we had no option but to take immediate action. eBay always take these cases very seriously and you can be assured that we take into account several factors when investigating them. Because it isn’t possible for us to see the item, we have to make sure that we are checking all of the information presented to us. We have concluded that the best course of action is to get both parties back to square one. To do this, we had your customer send the item back to you for a full refund.

We hope that this does not come across incorrectly. We don’t feel that your intentions were dishonest. We would like to reiterate that we have come to this decision because it is the fairest outcome for both you and your customer. You got your item back (and can re-list it), and your customer got their money back. I'm afraid we can't refund the payment you've made for this item last year. As per our guidelines, a buyer can only filed a dispute for refund within 45 days of the payment. To learn more about the eBay Buyer Protection program please visit this link:

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/ebaybuyerprotection/index.html

In the meantime, we haven't closed the case yet as we must confirm the return of the item. I suggest you wait until this item arrived. You can still make the things right if you refunded them. We are not expecting that you pay the return postage. As stated on the eBay guidelines, the seller is only required to refund the full amount plus the original postage cost.

If you notice any problems with the item, you might as well let us know. This is one of the indication of a buyer using eBay Buyer Protection just to get a refund. You may also appeal with the case after this has been totally close and here's how:

**

After making an appeal, please wait for 24-48 hours for us to re-investigate the case.

I trust that this information helps and I wish you all the best on eBay in the future.

Kind regards,

****

eBay Customer Service

[tall_bearded]

I think there are 4 issues here.

Firstly, the UK buyer protection policy makes it clear, that the buyer protection is only available to those buyers who use PayPal. So the simple solution is, stop offering PayPal.

Secondly it appears the response you got is inconsistent with actual Buyer Protection Policy.  That is the policy seems to imply that a decision will be made on examination of the facts, whereas the response you received makes it plain the facts are not even considered.  Instead the only thing considered is buyers allegation that the item was not significantly as described.

Thirdly, irrespective of whether the item was sold in Australia or the UK you still have a right to the protection provided the Sales of Goods Act, and that Act requires something more than a buyers allegation to prove a breach of contract, which is what a Item Significantly Described Claim really is.  Therefore what eBay Australian has effectively done is induced you to contract out of those rights, and the law on that point is very clear: if someone induces another to contract out of a right conferred by statute, then the person who has contracted out of those rights must be provided with a benefit of equal or greater value in return, and realistically I’m hard pressed to find any benefit you would derive from participation in a dispute resolution process where disputes are decided wholly on the basis of an allegation without a single shred of evidence in support.

Finally by limiting eBay UK buyer protection to items paid for with PayPal this would indicate that what we have here is an attempt to get around the PayPal’s licensing requirements.  That is to get a licence to provide financial services in Australia, and I believe that also in the UK, PayPal was required to make all of its decisions reviewable by the ombudsman service, but the ombudsman service has no jurisdiction when it comes decisions made by eBay.  Therefore to take the Ombudsman out of the loop and at the same time still encourage buyers to use PayPal, all you need to do is have eBay provide the protection, but limit access to that protection to buyers who paid via PayPal.

So what can you do about it?

You could launch a legal challenge, but as that challenge in part involves a challenge of the contract out of provisions as contained in the Australian Agreement, the only way you could do that is by way of a judicial review, and when it comes to those kinds of reviews the legal costs could well run into 6 figures.

In the alternative you can cut your losses and in the future, and as you already appear to have Merchant Account, simply remove PayPal from your accepted  payment options.         

[medieval_shoppe]

"Len, If a buyer opened a case against a seller for item not as described, we will take the buyers word about the condition of the item when they received it."

No point in talking to eBay at all then is there?

You pay $10,000's in fees over the years, and during that time you prove yourself as an honest person. They know you. You are THEIR client. Yet when you have an issue, your word carries no weight, and you you don't even have anybody to talk to.

This is why I never talk to eBay if I can possibly help it. They are never on their client's word about anything, and they even put that in writing.

So what's the point?

[dylan11235813]

You can contact the Financial Ombudsman Service.at this email.

http://www.fos.org.au/centric/home_page.jsp

[jdsenterprises74]

drz250k on what do you base that fact? I am in the UK and have called the ebay support many times over the years and I have always spoken to somebody with an Irish accent, we have often had conversations about everything from the weather to places I remember from a trip there many moons ago, I don't think they would bother training people in an overseas call centre to talk with an Irish accent and know about the geography of the region!

I watched a doco once where indian call centre workers were trained to speak with an American accent, were kept up to date with local knowledge - weather, landmarks (depending on region of course) and incredibly were trained to use the right accent (Texan drawl would be different to californian accent etc etc )

It was so strange watching these workers speak like a true blue american - you would not be able to distinguish that they were actually ringing from Bombay or Calcutta lol

Just thinking this may apply with the "Irish" call centre always a possiblility.

[3415len]

we got half our item back (yay?) and he got all his money back, + his half item + postage

well done and really fair policies by ebay 🙂

[cq_tech]

If you approach the FOS on the link provided in #54 and lodge an official online complaint, there is the distinct possibility that Paypal will be ordered to compensate you with an ex-gratia payment for the outstanding amount.

I'd put your chances of the recovery of the outstanding amount at considerably better odds than 50/50.

[foxeslair2014]

I have had two attempts made to scam my selling site on eBay.  I listed the item as No International Postage but it doesn't stop.  Ideally, when eBay is made aware that a scam (or an attempted scam) has occurred, eBay should post a list of the (fake) Buyer on a "Do Not Sell to" list. 

eBay have no interest in protecting the seller because they take their commission come what may. and they have themselves well covered for that.  The seller wastes numerous hours on this type of activity.  Complainig to eBay is a waste of more time.

[lyndal1838]

A FOUR year old thread????

Have you set your postage up properly to stop overseas buyers from buying from you?

It is not enough to just say No International Postage.

How is it a scam (or even an attempted scam) if an overseas buyer can buy because you have not see you postage up correctly?

And why would ebay set up any sort of list of "fake" buyers.....what is a "fake" buyer anyway.  If a member has bought an item from you because your postage is not set up correctly then how are they the fakes?   It could be said that you are the fake.

You can set up your own "do not sell to" list by adding the buyer to your blocked buyer list and setting your other preferences to exclude buyers that you do not want to sell to.

Maybe learn how ebay works before posting any more rants on the boards.