buyer italy refused delivery

[zeusthegreatest]

i sold a dress on 12/1/20 and posted to italy, same day i got payment ,using registered mail. parcel left Australia on 16/1/20 and had no further tracking when buyer raised Item not received on 05/02/20. ebay tracking was provided already as i printed label using AU post ebay facility. so i updated the buyer again and pasted tracking from AU post advising to be patient as most likely the parcel is with italy customs. she did not like my response and requested full refund. i raised missing item case with AU post and spoke to them too. they said most likely the item is with italy customs, and it will not show in tracking until customs processes it, but they will investigate. i updated ebay case with all details. on 11/02/20 item was scanned by italian customs, released and showed as in transit in milan. i again updated the case.  case was put on hold on 12/2/20 by ebay italy for 10 days as item indeed was now showing in italian post tracking as in transit, and i was notified that case is on hold until 22/2/20 to allow delivery. i went to bed on 12/2/20, woke up on 13/2 to find out ebay italy had decided to close the case in favor of buyer as she refused delivery, and fully refunded her. so i have to pay ebay now. is this how ebay seller protectin works? i do not have the item and have to pay back including postage? and i was charged seller fees. i have a statement in all of my listings advising about customs rules and charges. what else can i do to control customs and postage timing? and why is ebay deciding to refund the buyer? thanks!

[lyndal1838]

I have no idea......

1  I am not a seller so have no experience of how the GSP works from their end except what we read on the GSP site.

2  I am not in Italy.....I am in Australia and only know how the GSP works here.   The buyer just has to wait and wait and wait until the item is finally delivered here.  At least the tracking is good here, once you understand what the various terms mean.

[countessalmirena]

@zeusthegreatest,

I'm reposting your reply (message 17 in this thread) because I think it's worth being read so that more people here can give you some suggestions and comments in the context of your situation.

It might seem hair-splitting and overparticular to make a point of breaking up a post into paragraphs, and to use at least a minimum of punctuation (to the best of one's ability) - but there are sound reasons for it. I've outlined a few below:

Spoiler

• Too long a paragraph makes every single sentence hard to comprehend for readers (particularly online).
• The specific points which the writer makes are lost in a sort-of written stew.
• Without some punctuation, modern English can be confusing to the average reader, because the system of punctuation is designed to separate phrases and distinct parts of each sentence so that the writer's meaning is clear.
  It's not necessarily that the meaning can't be untangled (or at least, the most likely meaning can be guessed at, from the context), but rather that without the punctuation, the meaning is not clear and the reader is forced to go back over the last few words or sentences to try to work it out. (The OED defines punctuation as ❝The marks, such as full stop, comma, and brackets, used in writing to separate sentences and their elements and to clarify meaning.❞)

The harder that the writer makes his/her writing, the more onus is put on the reader - and in a lot of cases, that means that the reader will simply decide that it's far, far, far too hard to put in that effort. You, as the writer, should ensure that your writing is clear enough for the reader not to have to spend three or four times as long as the usual comprehension time, just to work out what you are saying. I'm not posting this to be condescending, but to point out how putting in just a little effort to make your writing easier to read will help considerably.

(At the very least, separating your post into a few paragraphs, as I've done with your post below, will make an enormous difference, and you'll be surprised just how more readily you will get additional helpful replies.)

Message no. 17 in this thread, reposted with paragraphs, etc.

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Thank you all for trying to help!

My appeal was rejected by eBay Italy, as the buyer does not have the item and has paid for it, they simply refund the buyer. According to the rules in Italy, if your package comes late (I was not told what it means, 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 month?), the buyer has the option of refusing delivery.

So i rang eBay AU again and they told me they will appeal again. They did say they have no other choice but appealing to eBay Italy and hoping they will reconsider, but not high chances of them reconsidering.

I asked them not to waste any more time as the answer from eBay Italy is simple.

So then eBay AU tried to offer me refund for eBay seller fees and remove the defect. I said no. Not happy to pay postage and PayPal fees.

While the item may come back to me in the same state I sent it, I do not know when it will be and also I am out of pocket for shipping fees – $34.30 – and PayPal fees – $6.21.

So I requested to talk to supervisor, who checked my case and said it should not have been ruled in favour of the buyer. He raised refund for me. Let’s hope it comes through.

As for selling to Europe – I now removed Europe and pretty much every other country in the world (left UK and US and NZ for now). I am not happy to pay for idiotic rules. With PayPal no longer returning seller fees when buyers change their mind or whatever the case, plus high eBay fees, selling on eBay is no longer attractive. There are other sites with acceptable rules. eBay does not want sellers? So be it 😞 

Member since: 13 Sep, 2004 with 1086 (100%) feedback and eBay is simply not interested in making selling a good option. I list on many other consignment sites and have not seen the rules eBay has anywhere else. While my items also get sold to Europe etc on the other sites, no one will accept the buyer rejecting the parcel after a few days of customs delays and refund them in full. 😞 What would happen if my item was part of global shipping program where i am only responsible to ship it to the local postal centre??? Would eBay also refund the buyer and allow them to reject the delivery???

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I'm truly sorry that you're in this predicament, having fallen foul of the EU Distance Selling Regulations (re returns, check The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013). I feel (and I know a great many people feel) that they offer a ludicrous amount of "protection" to buyers in the EU.

Irrespective of that, you should read through all the official information available about the enforced returns issue, etc., when it comes to selling to customers in the EU - just for your own information and protection.

• Guarantees, cancelling and returning your purchases - Your Europe
• eBay International Trading Policy (in partiuclar, note ❝By listing on other eBay sites you agree that the eBay Money Back Guarantee program (if any) on the eBay site where your item is sold will apply if a buyer makes a successful claim against you; and if eBay makes a payment to the buyer in respect of this claim, then eBay may recoup this money from you.❞

You should automatically have any negative or defect removed, as per eBay's Seller Protections page : ❝If you're sending an item internationally and it receives an acceptance scan within your handling time, we'll adjust your late shipment rate and remove negative or neutral Feedback.❞

i realise it's cold comfort, but this isn't some sort of special favour offered to you. It's your right.

Also - on the same page - under eBay Money Back Guarantee requests, eBay specifically states that ❝If you send an item within your stated handling time and provide tracking information to the buyer before you or the buyer asks us to step in to help with a request, you're protected.❞

Also note: ❝Generally, the buyer is responsible for accepting the item when it arrives. If the buyer refuses delivery, their claim is not eligible for eBay Money Back Guarantee.❞ (eBay Money Back Guarantee Policy.) However, even though eBay don't state that this doesn't apply if the buyer is within the EU, you should also make yourself familiar with the various equivalents of the MBG for other countries.

In this case: Garanzia cliente eBay (the Italian equivalent - eBay Customer Guarantee Policy on eBay.it) It says that buyers are covered ❝quando oggetto non è stato ricevuto❞ (Item not received) and also when ❝un oggetto è restituito per ripensamento dell'acquirente e nei limiti delle regole di restituzione del venditore❞ (item returned due to buyer's remorse, and within the seller's T&Cs for return). If you have "no returns" specified, this would seem to shut the door on the buyer being able to return the item for a full refund.

However, there's also this bit: ❝Un acquirente segnala di non aver ricevuto un oggetto o ne richiede la restituzione entro le tempistiche della Garanzia cliente eBay❞ (the buyer reports non-arrival of item (or requests item be returned) within the eBay Customer Guarantee Policy timeframe). You'll see the information about timeframes (Tempistiche) further down on the page: ❝L'acquirente può indicare su Il mio eBay di non aver ricevuto un oggetto solo dopo che sia trascorsa l'ultima data stimata per la consegna e nei 30 giorni successivi a tale data❞ (The buyer can report Item Not Received only after the latest Estimated Delivery Date has passed, and up to 30 days from that date).

What was the latest EDD for your item? You said that you sold the dress on 12/1/20. You say that you were paid on the 16/1/20 and posted it that same day, correct? So... when the buyer contacted you on 05/02/20, asking where their item was, it had only been 14 business days. That seems to indicate impatience on the part of the buyer, not to mention insensitivity that many services have slowed down as a result of the catastrophic bushfires throughout Australia, and the effects of the coronavirus COVID-19.

Ah well... just take a look at what the EDD for that item was. It did take a long time for the buyer to receive the parcel, and if their expectation is for delivery within the EU timeframes and eBay.it timeframes, one can't really blame the buyer for taking advantage of it, I suppose.

That's not to say it's your fault.

According to the Italian MBG,

❝Ultima data stimata per la consegna

Quando non abbiamo informazioni sull'effettiva data di consegna, utilizziamo l'ultima data stimata per la consegna. Quando non abbiamo informazioni sulla data stimata per la consegna, consideriamo che l'ultima data stimata per la consegna è 9 giorni dalla data di pagamento per le transazioni tra acquirente e venditore nello stesso Paese e 30 giorni dalla data di pagamento per le transazioni tra acquirente e venditore in Paesi diversi.❞

(When eBay don't have an actual delivery date, they'll use the latest EDD - and if one isn't generated by the postage method used, eBay will automatically create an EDD based on when the buyer paid. In this case, because you're in a different country to the buyer, the EDD is 30 days from the date of payment.)

Something that might play into your decision about selling overseas in future is to take a very close look at AP's delivery information. Sometimes the most important parts are in the fine print. They do NOT guarantee a delivery day. They do NOT even guarantee a delivery range. Sending with tracking doesn't protect you from EU customers who buy with the knowledge of their consumer guarantees.

So... think wisely. AP say that Standard (by air) is 9 business days, but that is a delivery time estimate and "Estimate based on standard delivery times between metropolitan areas of major cities". It doesn't take into account any time in customs, nor from the airport of a major city to the domestic delivery service within Italy until it finally reaches the customer. (I don't know whether you checked the Special Documentation required for sending to Italy... If not, scroll down on this page.) In my view, Standard is not up to the job if you're an eBay seller sending to EU countries, and you should only offer Express. (At least, that would be my position if I were a seller, unless you can afford to absorb a certain percentage of returns when the inevitable 'hasn't arrived - want a refund' requests roll in from Italian, French, German, Spanish, etc., customers.)

You may want to contact eBay again (using the Have us call you option) and point out that under the Seller Protection page, you should be covered. If it's reiterated that there are different MBGs on different eBay platforms, quietly and politely repeat that there is no caveat concerning any such thing on the Seller Protection page, and that you believe you should, under the information on that page, be protected.

It's worth trying.

Also, you may want to read this thread, and also read the two thread to which I have linked within that thread, just to be aware of how to record a call correctly (consent must be gained; external recording device must be used), how to prepare for a conversation with eBay CS reps, and how to take notes and summarise during the call.

[offroad7400]

Your $159 dress and postage is a hefty loss.  The buyer may of been canny and done this before.  Free dress at your expense.   Like a retail shop, factor this loss akin to shop lifting.  Your chances of payment are slim to zero.  The liklihood of these 'transactions' increase with international selling and you need to consider this in your 'risk management'.

It might happen once in a year, but if it became more common, mitigate the risk and only sell nationally.  Alternatively, based on your sales, look at the countries which have been successful and fast delivery of your products.  Untick the rest in your postage options.

When eBay moves to their new payment platform, they will take away the ability for PayPal as intermediatary for 'warranty' and this can by a good and a bad thing depending on whether you are the buyer or seller.