buyer italy refused delivery

[zeusthegreatest]

i sold a dress on 12/1/20 and posted to italy, same day i got payment ,using registered mail. parcel left Australia on 16/1/20 and had no further tracking when buyer raised Item not received on 05/02/20. ebay tracking was provided already as i printed label using AU post ebay facility. so i updated the buyer again and pasted tracking from AU post advising to be patient as most likely the parcel is with italy customs. she did not like my response and requested full refund. i raised missing item case with AU post and spoke to them too. they said most likely the item is with italy customs, and it will not show in tracking until customs processes it, but they will investigate. i updated ebay case with all details. on 11/02/20 item was scanned by italian customs, released and showed as in transit in milan. i again updated the case.  case was put on hold on 12/2/20 by ebay italy for 10 days as item indeed was now showing in italian post tracking as in transit, and i was notified that case is on hold until 22/2/20 to allow delivery. i went to bed on 12/2/20, woke up on 13/2 to find out ebay italy had decided to close the case in favor of buyer as she refused delivery, and fully refunded her. so i have to pay ebay now. is this how ebay seller protectin works? i do not have the item and have to pay back including postage? and i was charged seller fees. i have a statement in all of my listings advising about customs rules and charges. what else can i do to control customs and postage timing? and why is ebay deciding to refund the buyer? thanks!

[joztamps]

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@kopenhagen5 wrote:

I have always been under the impression if you buy from a particular site, you fall under the rules of that site.

At least that is what eBay USA have always told us.

There have been cases with buyers buying on the USA site and eBay USA refuse our protection because the rules are different in USA.

But that may all have changed now.

I still think the rules to be followed are to do with the site you purchase on.

And I think there is something in the cross-border trade agreement we all had to sign some years back.

That aside, Italy are very pro Italy and it's probably a losing battle to take it further.

Hope you get the item back.

I haven't sold to Italy for years due to the dishonest ebayers, both sellers and buyers.

Also due to constant lost articles in the post.

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Pretty sure I saw where Ebay Oz changed their rules last year to say that sales by ebay Oz sellers are covered by the ebay rules of the buyer's country.

Obviously doesn't work in reverse though, eg Oz buyers from o/s sellers.

[brerrabbit585]

If the item has seller protection, ring paypal.

Google the EU distance selling regulations and see where you stand in relation to future sales to Europe.  The following is a post from 2016 - some things won't have changed but it'd pay you to read up on it before you decide whether to keep selling to countries in the EU.

France is in the EU, which has some unique protections for buyers (it's meant to only apply to EU sellers, but because the buyer is in France, it applies via PP no matter where they buy from because it's part of their protection policy). Part of the Distance Selling Regulations gives buyers the right to cancel or reject most online purchases (exceptions apply to custom made items, perishable goods and the like), but it can be for any reason what so ever, and get a full refund of their original payment, including postage. There are a few conditions, but they are nowhere near strict enough (except for the conditions on sellers). 

And another previous post on the subject:

If the buyer is overseas, and in the EU, the Distance Selling Regulations give them a 'cooling off period', which is basically the right to change their mind, for any reason, and receive a full refund of the original payment (and what's more, not returning the item doesn't mean the seller doesn't have to issue the refund). Anyone who sells to buyers in the EU is technically obliged to honour the regulations, too - the minimum timeframe is 10 days, but can be up to 12 months if the seller doesn't outline their return policy. (Some scary stuff for sellers in those particular DSRs). 

There are proper procedures, of course, for a start the buyer has to notify the seller, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people only concentrate on the notion they can get a full refund if they don't want the item anymore, no matter how they go about it. 

[zeusthegreatest]

well, i have to wait till tomorrow when i can speak to AU ebay escalation team to find out how i am protected as a seller. i cannot beleive the idiocity of the rules. ebay needs both sellers and buyers to operate. how is one going to sell if a buyer simply refuses delivery, ebay refunds them in full and expects seller to pay??? i will also ring paypal as you reccomended but i have a feeling paypal will tell me to deal with ebay, my transaction was not reversed by paypal. its ebay italy who decided i owe ebay money.  i guess i can close my account and disconnect my paypal? is that what ebay wants???? i will let u know once i speak to them 😞 thank u all for trying to help! for now i ticked almost everything apart from US and New Zealand as i do not want to sell to them. selling on ebay is no longer a good idea by the look of it. 😞 i spoke to AU post and was told its not just italy having massive delays with customs... 😞

[gem-boy-g]

if the buyer refused delivery won't the item be returned to sender?

[designers*n*more]

Try also ringing Aust Post (or message them via Messenger, quicker responses) and see if they can advise how you get your parcel back. At least that way you'll have your item back.

[springyzone]

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@zeusthegreatest wrote:

ok, thank u! so not only i need to exclude italy from my buyers, i need to do whole europe? i wish ebay was advising sellers about it 😞

here is the email i got from ebay italy:

Your dispute has been closed because the shipper confirmed that the delivery of the item was refused by the buyer because the delivery took place late.

I inform you that a buyer has the right to refuse a package if the package arrives late and claims to have a refund.

We had to close the dispute by issuing a refund to the buyer.

I am aware that this is not the answer you were hoping to receive, but I hope I have provided you with a comprehensive explanation. I wish you success with your future eBay sales.  

Sincerely,

Irena P.

EBay Customer Service

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I can see how your sale went pear shaped, it's a loophole in the system for sure. 

I can see the reasoning behind this ebay policy in Italy because from a buyer's point of view, if something comes late it might no longer be required, but I am surprised their ebay hasn't built in a bit of leeway here, to account for postal delays etc. Maybe if a parcel is over 2 or 3 weeks late, then it could kick in? I don't know, but there should be some leeway given or ebay should also give you some seller protection here

However, as this doesn't seem to be the case then yes, I think you probably do need to exclude italy at the very least from buying from you. And yes, possibly rethink sales to Europe. It seems to me you can't rely on ebay to tell you any details that might turn you off selling. Why would they do that, it would affect their profits.

[zeusthegreatest]

thank u all for trying to help! my appeal was rejected by ebay Italy, as the buyer does not have the item and has paid for it, they simply refund the buyer. according to the rules in italy if your package comes late ( i was not told what it means, 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 month?) the buyer has the option of refusing delivery. so i rang ebay AU again and they told me they will appeal again.  they did say they have no other choice but appealing to ebay Italy and hoping they will reconsider, but not high chances of them reconsidering. i asked them not to waste any more time as the answer from ebay italy is simple.so then ebay AU tried to offer me refund for ebay seller fees and remove the defect. i said no. not happy to pay postage and paypal fees. while the item may come back to me in the same state i sent it, i do not know when it will be and also i am out of pocket for shipping fees $34.30 and paypal fees $6.21. so i requested to talk to supervisor. who checked my case and said it should not have been ruled in favor of the buyer. he raised refund for me. lets hope it comes thru. as for selling to europe - i now removed europe and pretty much every other country in the world. left UK and US and NZ for now. i am not happy to pay for idiotic rules. with paypal no longer returning seller fees when buyers change thier mind or whatever the case, plus high ebay fees, selling on ebay is no longer attractive. there r other sites with acceptable rules. ebay does not want sellers. so be it 😞 Member since: 13 Sep, 2004 with 1086 100% feedback and ebay is simly not interested in making selling a good option. i list on many other consignment sites and have not seen the rules ebay has anywhere else. while my items also get sold to europe etc on the other sites, noone will accept the buyer rejecting the parcel after a few days of customs delays and refund them in full. 😞 what would happen if my item was part of global shipping program where i am only responsible to ship it to the local postal center??? would ebay also refund the buyer and allow them to reject the delivery???

[lyndal1838]

You should be aware that you may have the same problem with buyers in the US.....if anything is held up in Customs or anywhere else during delivery the buyer can open a case for not received and in 99% of cases the seller loses their money with no appeal available.

Your item cannot be sent through the GSP.....it is only available to the USA and UK at the moment.   However, once an item is delivered to the GSP depot the seller is no longer responsible for it.   This is why so many sellers like it and would not send items overseas without it.

[davewil1964]

TLDR

Save the paragraph.

[zeusthegreatest]

thank u! lets say same situation happened to a seller in US with an item sent thru global shipping program. would ebay allow the buyer to reject the parcel delayed by italian customs and refund in full? or they woud tell the buyer noone is responsible for customs delays and unless the item vanishes from this universe only then ebay would refund the buyer and get insurance paid for the lost item?