ebay refunding $405 for an item still in transit

[retro-boho-and-co]

Hi, I am hoping someone can help me! This is completely crazy!!

I sold an item (in Australia) listed with air mail delivery but with sea mail as a delivery option in the description.

Buyer (in USA) chose sea mail delivery. This takes 8-12 weeks. Item lodged March 17.

Item is due for delivery May 18-June 18. Buyer was informed of this. Buyer questioned where  the item was in early April and I again explained estimated arrival date is May 18-June 18 and that sea mail takes between 2 to 3 months.

In mid April buyer opened a dispute item was not received. I again explained the item is not due until mid May at the earliest. Buyer indicated they were happy to wait until June 18.

However, buyer did not close the case. I escalated the case to have it closed. Instead, ebay closed it with a refund to the buyer as the item had not been received. This is despite me saying it was not scheduled to arrive yet. Tracking shows the item was lodged on 17 March and on 20th March was loaded at the dock.

Ebay has said - there is no update in tracking (there are no updates in tracking while the itme is in the boat), item has not been received, my appeal was rejected and they will not reopen the case.

So $405 was refunded to the buyer, who will recieve the item in the next week to month.

Ebay has said to ask Australia Post to return the item (this isn't possible) or to email the buyer and request payment. I have emailed buyer with no response.

Surely this is not the only way to resolve this, I can't believe that despite multiple phone calls and emails stating delivery schedule and  date, that ebay has refunded the buyer.

Please help! I was selling things to pay for my kids birthday and I don't want to cancel it. It's incredibly stressful dealing with ebay help as they seem unable to actually use common sense and it appears once a case is closed there in no method to re-open it.

I would not mind if it was less  than $100. This is $405!

[retro-boho-and-co]

I have the answer to the problem - I have accepted that as the solution (see above, several responses basically covering the same thing)

It's identical to what I found when I googled this, however that information was specific to the UK. I was wanting to check if it applies in Australia also which apparently it does.

That is, the Financial Ombusdman is the only recourse for an unauthorised debit from paypal. They can review the correspondence from ebay on this and determine if a refund should have been given under the circumstances.

Of course this hinges on whether tracking is updated within the next month. If it isn't, I don't know if I will lodge a claim with them (they have said tracking does not need to be updated for them to review it, and that I have 2 years from the date of the transaction to lodge a case)

[maranock]

Ok, so why do you keep going on about it?

[retro-boho-and-co]

I thought you were?

Mainly because people continue to state that sea mail is not covered by seller protection, and using sea mail violates ebay policy somehow

So that is not the case and I don't believe false statements should be unchallenged

It needs to be clear that these are unverified and false claims and that none of the people who have stated this is the case have yet deomstrated it or shown any ebay policy that supports it

Can you?

[chameleon54]

---

@maranock wrote:

You have to consider the problem from our (other ebay users) perspective. We already know how fraught with problems surface mail is so none of us use it. Commenters have been trying to suggest actions to your problem as best they can and sometimes that info will conflict. It is still much better advice than you will ever get from Ebay, but you will have to go through suggestions and work out what may work for you. If it not the answers you are looking for, then sorry, we may not know these answers, or you may not be listening.

If you are looking for answers from lawyers then go to a lawyer, here you will find real life experience which will not always be cut and dry.

---

Manarock - Love your tag line about education & experience.......made my day.

To the OP, I sell several hundred items a year to international clients and are having more trouble recently than in the past with buyers expecting to recieve their item by ebays estimated delivery time. If they dont get it by the estimated date, the messages and cases start. From what I have read in the thread, part of the problem stems from the fact ( dont shoot me if I,ve got tis wrong ) that you quoted air mail in the delivery instructions and then offered surface mail in the description. Buyer chose surface mail, but ebays delivery estimate was based on the air mail you had listed as your delivery option.

If I,ve got this right, you made a mistake, it went pear shaped and unfortunately you have probably lost both the item and the money. Ebay have followed the correct processes, it is you that made an error in the listing process. While I can appreciate it hurts to lose so much money, your success in recourse is going to be limited as it was your listing error that caused the problem. Your only hope is if your buyer recieves the item soon and voluntarily refunds you. Otherwise it might be best to just chalk it up to experience and ensure your listing process meets ebays requirements in future.

[retro-boho-and-co]

Yes, that is correct

It is an ebay process that was followed due to an error in the way I listed it, the last customer service rep I talked to was quite happy to put the case on hold due to the documented request by the buyer that the item be sent by sea mail. But yes, the automated process kicked in and it was refunded regardless of being told the case would be extended to allow scheduled delivery dates to be met

So yes definitely my mistake and a whole series of problems that could have been avoided if I didn't offer sea mail at all (or at least listed it only with sea mail and instead offered air mail as the option), allowed the case to lapse instead of escalating it to try to close it, and did not appeal immediately and instead waited for tracking to show delivery

So multiple errors on my part.

The Ombudsman can determine if these mistakes demonstrate an automatic refund is warranted - I agree Ebay has followed a process, but whether that process was fair is another matter.

Either way, its how life works and once I have sent the info to the Ombudsman there's not much else I can do except move most of my selling off ebay (which it mostly is anyway), and the items I do list here do not offer sea mail. I will probably use ebay just to buy as it seems great as a buyer in most cases

[chameleon54]

For what its worth, I agree with you that as you have messages from the buyer requesting surface mail, the CS reps should have been a bit more responsive and treated you more fairly. Unfortunately their hands seem to be tied most of the time by the requirement to strictly follow ebay policy........ to the letter. They dont have the authority to " bend the rules " to allow for common sense or situations that dont neatly fit into a box.

[retro-boho-and-co · Accepted solution]

I have just had a phone call from the US Appeals Department (which I must have requested at some point speaking to a CSO)

I have been told that there is a second appeals process which can be lodged, the  second appeal is requesting a manual correction

So while the first appeal is "final" there is a possible second appeal that apparently no one tells you about, despite multiple requests of where to lodge a complaint or have a higher appeal

What you need to do to get a "second appeal" is when the tracking is updated, phone

1800 322 928 (in Australia) request to speak to the Appeals Department and request to lodge a second appeal with a manual correction

If the tracking is verified then the item cost is reimbursed .... apparently ....

[retro-boho-and-co]

I should add, PLEASE NOTE she also said sea mail or surface mail is an acceptable freight method, and that ebay appreciates me being flexible with the buyer in offering the widest range of delivery methods possible, that sea mail is covered by seller protection but the issue here was with the original listing

At no point have I been told otherwise, and that sea mail is a "non sanctioned" delivery method in ebay

[padi*0409]

---

@retro-boho-and-co wrote:

If the tracking is verified then the item cost is reimbursed .... apparently ....

---

The problem there is that sea-mail doesn't have a  tracking number per se, all you have is a customs lodgement number (if I remember correctly), that is not a tracking number and from your earlier statement is only going to be tracked once the parcel arrives in the US. You also didn't have SOD on the parcel either. 

[*tippy*toes*]

I'm curious, I just had a look at the listing in question and there was no mention of offering sea mail in the description, only to wait for an invoice as postage could be slightly more or slightly less. The only postage offered was standard international flat rate postage, which shows a delivery estimate of 8-16 days. Did the buyer wait for an invoice, and if they did, did you add sea mail as an option in the invoice?

If that's what happened, the estimate would have remained at 8-16 days, despite them selecting sea mail option (which in your other listings where it was the only option, it says 33-63 business days (sounds like boats must stop on weekends! :D). I know the dates don't change from standard because when my buyers choose express as the option, the estimate dates stay as being for regular post.

That is probably why your buyer was able to open a dispute. Normally the estimate date has to pass before opening an eBay dispute. It's an unfortunate "glitch" in the eBay system that allows this to happen.

There are several options for shipping, that while they are offered, don't allow seller protection. "Standard post", as in sending via large letter, and sea mail. While they are both legitimate options, they don't come with tracking. Yes, standard post can be registered, but I'm not talking that here. Without tracking, you will lose a dispute every single time. I know some international shipments you can get tracking of sorts from the customs number, but eBay don't generally recognise that.

Despite what eBay says, I wouldn't be relying on this appeals process either, regardless of what the "tracking" says. There have been many before you that have lodged an appeal and lost pretty much every single time. Once eBay close a case, regardless of what they say, that's it. They won't budge.

You just have to hope that your buyer is honest enough to pay for the item when it arrives. I wouldn't hassle them any more for now. You don't want to get them offside. Even if they are honest, they're not going to give you anything until they have the item. Generally collectors of these items tend to be pretty honest most of the time. Lets just hope your buyer is one of them.