ebay refunding $405 for an item still in transit

[retro-boho-and-co]

Hi, I am hoping someone can help me! This is completely crazy!!

I sold an item (in Australia) listed with air mail delivery but with sea mail as a delivery option in the description.

Buyer (in USA) chose sea mail delivery. This takes 8-12 weeks. Item lodged March 17.

Item is due for delivery May 18-June 18. Buyer was informed of this. Buyer questioned where  the item was in early April and I again explained estimated arrival date is May 18-June 18 and that sea mail takes between 2 to 3 months.

In mid April buyer opened a dispute item was not received. I again explained the item is not due until mid May at the earliest. Buyer indicated they were happy to wait until June 18.

However, buyer did not close the case. I escalated the case to have it closed. Instead, ebay closed it with a refund to the buyer as the item had not been received. This is despite me saying it was not scheduled to arrive yet. Tracking shows the item was lodged on 17 March and on 20th March was loaded at the dock.

Ebay has said - there is no update in tracking (there are no updates in tracking while the itme is in the boat), item has not been received, my appeal was rejected and they will not reopen the case.

So $405 was refunded to the buyer, who will recieve the item in the next week to month.

Ebay has said to ask Australia Post to return the item (this isn't possible) or to email the buyer and request payment. I have emailed buyer with no response.

Surely this is not the only way to resolve this, I can't believe that despite multiple phone calls and emails stating delivery schedule and  date, that ebay has refunded the buyer.

Please help! I was selling things to pay for my kids birthday and I don't want to cancel it. It's incredibly stressful dealing with ebay help as they seem unable to actually use common sense and it appears once a case is closed there in no method to re-open it.

I would not mind if it was less  than $100. This is $405!

[retro-boho-and-co]

I appealed and it was rejected as proof of delivery could not be provided (yes, delivery date has not yet been reached, delivery is still not scheduled). So apparently I should have waited to appeal until the tracking was updated in the next few weeks. Once an appeal is rejected, it is closed and can't be re-opened.

You are correct - sea mail does not come with tracking and tracking can't be purchased either. However, items above a certain weight (4kg from memory, it might be less) being sent to the US are autromatically tracked by the USPS. The customs number (article number) in that case is a substitute tracking number. So this item is being tracked - but not by an Oz poszt tracking number but by the US postal service. if you go to the US postal service site and enter the customs number for a sea mail article you will see the tracking if the US is the desitnation.

Good luck with your appeal. It looks like a strategy is needed there, as facts are irrelevant and it is automated

[digital*ghost]

Just thought I'd mention that PayPal don't specify anywhere that I've read that sea mail isn't covered.

It may have been in the past, or it may have been completely circumstantial in that there was only 45 days for a dispute, so not enough time for it to arrive and / or sellers didn't get proof of postage with sea mail.

It's probably still not advisable to use it, especially on eBay, for reasons I'm sure are obvious now, but it doesn't expressly void PayPal seller protection AFIK.

[lyndal1838]

Whether a policy exists or not, there are many posters who will tell you that ebay makes up the rules to suit themselves.

I have twice won disputes with sellers who used surface mail instead of the airmail that they had listed..

[retro-boho-and-co]

I didn't list it as air mail and send it surface mail without the buyers knowledge as you seem to be implying

I listed both options, one on the listing and one in the description, and asked the buyer to choose. He chose surface mail, and this is in writing from the buyer. It was clarified over several messages after the sale that he could choose sea mail or air mail.

The only thing pear shaped here seems to be your interpretation of both ebay policy, delivery methods and what has happened in this case

Do you have anything worthwhile or valid to contribute? Like a source as requested for your "policy" on delivery methods and sea mail being not allowed??

[digital*ghost]

But it really does matter if a policy exists.

The other thing is, sellers in other countries have to provide proof of delivery for PayPal, so it's not surprising if you won INR cases on those.

[countessalmirena]

88rainbow88, your posts to various members on this thread give the impression of hostility, which is unfair; everyone has posted here to do their best in giving you helpful information so that you have the best chance in difficult circumstances of seeing a good resolution.

I realise that you're upset by this experience. Being snappy does not help. Remember too that potential buyers or current buyers will see your posts on these public boards and gain an impression about you as a seller.

It's been said that sea mail isn't an approved method of international shipping. What people are trying to convey is that under eBay's Money Back Guarantee (and the rules on international eBay sites), sending by sea mail is fraught with difficulties and you are almost certainly going to fall beyond the seller protection which is offered for other postage methods.

The difficulty is that eBay's Money Back Guarantee doesn't cover a period long enough for sea mail / surface mail to get to the destination. The buyer could rely on PayPal since the dispute period has now been lengthened to 180 days, but many buyers will not, because they don't have to. Moreover, the estimated delivery time on the listing gives a date that they consciously or subconsciously rely on. The buyer could listen to you the seller saying it's going to be another month at least, or they can look at eBay's estimated delivery - whose information do you think they will rely on? They can just go straight to the MBG and feel 100% sure of winning their claim. Read the US Money Back Guarantee page and weep.

As I understand it (but bear in mind I'm not a seller; I'm a buyer), when creating your listing, it is not enough to enter into the description of the item that you will be willing to send by sea mail; rather, it should be entered under Services in the Post To dropdown (advanced listing tool). If you don't do this, eBay will not offer an estimated delivery time based upon sea mail, but only upon the postage options that appear in the postage tab of the listing. If I have understood you correctly, you weren't able to do this - and that has put you IMMEDIATELY behind the eight-ball.

It's not enough to say that the buyer chose sea mail (requested it or agreed to it through messages) because eBay's Money Back Guarantee - automated as it is - will go by the estimated delivery in your postage options. Sometimes - not often! - people can convincingly argue their case by contacting eBay, but it requires extraordinary patience, extraordinary politeness, an extraordinarily receptive and agreeable rep, and extraordinary luck. Why would you risk this amount of money on such a charmed confluence of components?

[maranock]

You have had answers and advice from very experienced members here but you choose to be outraged instead of listening. If you choose to be confrontational instead of taking the time to understand what people are saying you won't get much sympathy here.

If you take advice and ask nicely then people here will go out of their way to provide info and help.

[digital*ghost]

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@countessalmirena wrote:

The difficulty is that eBay's Money Back Guarantee doesn't cover a period long enough for sea mail / surface mail to get to the destination.

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Yes and no... There is a limit on the amount of time the MBG remains a viable option for buyers, no matter how long the ETA is, though if it worked as it should, and sea mail is an option, which then provides an eBay ETA, then technically a dispute couldn't be opened before that ETA has passed. 

The first problem here was that sea mail wasn't the service selected in checkout, just the service paid for by the buyer.

[digital*ghost]

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@maranock wrote:

You have had answers and advice from very experienced members here but you choose to be outraged instead of listening.

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From where I'm sitting, the OP is upset and frustrated, and receiving incorrect info and then being told more incorrect info when they question it against what they have confirmed via other means.

[gutterpunkz05]

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@retro-boho-and-co wrote:

SEA MAIL IS APPROVED or why would it exist on the ebay system?

If sea mail was not approved, why would this have never been mentioned in multiple emails and phone calls???

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ebay is a world wide system, while sea mail is included in the options, it is not a viable option from Australia to most world

destinations if it is to arrive within relevant ebay time frames.

Will be interested to hear your final results re this matter, and especially if you think it was all worth it.

Not long ago on these boards, there was another member who was also upset about ebay refunding a buyer.  From memory

he reported the refund as an unauthorized transaction to his bank.  Ebay refunded  his payment  and presumably sought restitution via other means,  Then while he was here declaring his victory over ebay, all his sale listings dissappeared and his sellers priveledge was rescinded.  He continued  boasting of his success for a few days, despite being warned by numerous members of the impending consequences.  Then no more posts, no more account, no selling, no buying and no recourse.

I know $405.00  seems like a lot of money, but remember ebay is something like the 9th largest company in the world, and to them your $405.00 does not even equate to petty cash.  My last loss to ebay, was more than double your loss, and was followed up with a downturn in trade of approx  $10.000 over two months, so  yes I know how vindictive ebay can be.